A few post Hamza stories,
How to beat the preachers of hate
By Ghaffar Hussain from Quilliam is coming with the Quilliam idea of engaging extremists in debate on twat and in chatrooms. Fuck knows, it might work.
...Extremist narratives only lose their appeal when they are undermined and thoroughly discredited; when the debate is opened up and won by their opponents, rather than being shut down and lost.
We need to enter the realm of ideas and pitch more positive and enlightened values against extreme and regressive arguments....
Maybe if we had engaged extremists in suits thousands of Iraqis wouldn't now be dead. Again fuck knows. You can engage people cant you. I suppose.
Another article enthusiastically titled Abu Hamza embodies Britain’s self-destructive madness. Read it yourself, it contains a long forgotten video of long forgotten times when everyone could preach Jihad eh
After studying Hamza, his posse and all the subsequent court cases I attended for so many years I am a bit surprised I haven't really got a post Hamza story myself. I am glad the jury got to see the unreported truth that Mr Hamza spoke very clearly against terrorism outside the mosque because it is the truth. I didn't expect it to do any good.
When I read about the things he was saying and how he over ruled his own
defence in a letter to the judge demanding to testify the emotions I
felt a long time ago welled up and I frantically sent stuff to his
lawyers. I still have no idea if he is guilty of any or all of this, but I saw enough that I will always be concerned at the difference between Hamza in soundbites and Hamza week in week out on the street. I have as much idea as anyone else about what Hamza may or may not have done behind closed doors, but on the street I was very worried that we might be losing someone who was actually putting the brakes on terrorism.
I was talking to Raff Pantucci about this the other day who has taken a much more professional interest in all this than I have and over some beer my doubts crystalised as follows.
Hamza either had an unburstable ego or an unshakable faith. Only when charges first came from the FBI was he visibly shaken which I have on film. I just think if Hamza was in favour of terr-ism he would have bloody well said so. Plenty of others were saying so at the time and have said so since.
Some of Hamza's mates used to say to me "Bakri's posse speak in favour of terrorism, we don't yet we get all the hassle from the media". They speculated that maybe Bakri's posse were working for MI-5. Another of Hamza's friends said Mr H "was concerned because the kids weren't calling him anymore" meaning that he was worried they were becoming terr-ists,
I am cool these days with people believing whatever they want about Hamza, even the Sun who stole my video. People have their opinion and I have mine and the people who know either aren't saying or are saying in exchange for cash and freedom.
Fuck knows.
This sort of thing is obviously more sobering.
I think people should pay for their crimes, I just have the feeling in terms of a wider non existant "peace process" we might have lost someone in Hamza. The only Mad Muslim to suggest a "peace process" was Moaazam Begg and now we lost him too.
(Update: Moazaam has since been freed)
Meanwhile in Finsbury Park Mosque
...Ensuring young worshippers cannot become potential recruits to a jihadist agenda, Mr Kozbar advocates working with youth groups, counteracting the kind of ostracising that helps breed hatred.
“We take [young people] away from the street, from gangs, from drugs and from extremism, as well as creating an atmosphere where they can debate and play table tennis and snooker in a relaxed atmosphere.”..
PS
I just found Raff in an excellent debate about Jihadi Brits going to Syria on BBC Newsnight here
...
May 23, 2014
May 21, 2014
May 20, 2014
IT IS NOW
"for the misery he brought to others" says Mr Blunkett
Though apparently there is going to be an appeal
...
Though apparently there is going to be an appeal
...
May 16, 2014
THEY THINK ITS ALL OVER
And it probably is eh
..."He tried to come across to you as a calm man, accepting of others -- the exact opposite of the man you heard on tapes and videos," said prosecutor Ian McGinley. " . . . The real Abu Hamza is not the man you see in 2014. The real Abu Hamza is the one who said 'killing a Kafir [non-Muslim], you can say it's OK even if there's no reason.' "
But the defense said the government was trying to cover up gaps in the evidence tying Abu Hamza to actual plots by falling back on incendiary -- but legal -- rhetoric that praised Osama bin Laden and espoused a militant view of Islam.
"A lot, if not a majority of the government's case, is his words, not his deeds, his words taken out of context, his words without the correct perspective," said defense lawyer Jeremy Schneider. "This case is about what he did, not what he said in the '80s or '90s....
...
..."He tried to come across to you as a calm man, accepting of others -- the exact opposite of the man you heard on tapes and videos," said prosecutor Ian McGinley. " . . . The real Abu Hamza is not the man you see in 2014. The real Abu Hamza is the one who said 'killing a Kafir [non-Muslim], you can say it's OK even if there's no reason.' "
But the defense said the government was trying to cover up gaps in the evidence tying Abu Hamza to actual plots by falling back on incendiary -- but legal -- rhetoric that praised Osama bin Laden and espoused a militant view of Islam.
"A lot, if not a majority of the government's case, is his words, not his deeds, his words taken out of context, his words without the correct perspective," said defense lawyer Jeremy Schneider. "This case is about what he did, not what he said in the '80s or '90s....
...
May 14, 2014
LOCAL NEWS
People are making TV about Mad Muslims a lot more like how I used to do my Youtube clips these days ie pointing a camera at people and asking them to explain what they think rather than just telling them off on TV or making stupid angles and slants on them. Not difficult is it? Watch an excellent Panorama From Jail to Jihad and read a good article about it all in The Independent here. Of course to me in terms of mad muslims Vice are knocking everyone else out of the park.
...
...
May 13, 2014
CROSS EXAMINATION
Abu Hamza told to stop making speeches by New York judge
Abu Hamza 'stashed guide to bomb-making in cell at one of Britain's highest security prisons'
also on twat
#AbuHamza allegedly planned to send 3000 followers to Afghanistan and set up Taliban office in Finsbury Park mosque
the tweet links to a picture.
UPDATE well it did link to a picture of a letter posted by DipeshGadher which he said was used in the trial but it has since mysteriously disappeared.
reference to the letter in the Sunday Times here. 18th may in an article by Dipesh Gadher. That solves everything.
...
Abu Hamza 'stashed guide to bomb-making in cell at one of Britain's highest security prisons'
also on twat
#AbuHamza allegedly planned to send 3000 followers to Afghanistan and set up Taliban office in Finsbury Park mosque
the tweet links to a picture.
UPDATE well it did link to a picture of a letter posted by DipeshGadher which he said was used in the trial but it has since mysteriously disappeared.
reference to the letter in the Sunday Times here. 18th may in an article by Dipesh Gadher. That solves everything.
...
LAST DAY
from the Guardian Mr Hamza makes a currently unfortunate Jerry Adams reference
Abu Hamza denies Yemen kidnapping role as New York terror trial continues
...“I was acting as a mouthpiece, like Gerry Adams” he said. “And like Gerry Adams, of the IRA, you can't afford to do anything that is not legal and transparent.”...
...“I felt angry and I felt betrayed because of the ignorance of the people. They cannot focus on the cause. I did not have control of things.”...
...Abu Hassan, the head of the kidnappers, was “not visualising the real situation”, Hamza said. He said that the Yemeni government knew “exactly where he was” and there were also SAS special forces in the area.
“They will finish him even if they finish the whole tourists with him,” Hamza said...
....Hamza said he told Hassan to keep his focus on the longer term. "I said to him: 'Focus on what you want, you want an Islamic state, you should not be jumpy.'" Asked by Dratel if there was "any discussion of the kidnapping", Hamza replied: "No, certainly no."...
From KWCH12
...He described Osama bin Laden as a hothead, in charge of an unfocused organization that has betrayed the Afghan people. As for the Taliban regime, it doesn't need his money; it has "millions," yet doesn't feed its own people, he said.
But in Manhattan, by invoking 9/11 and bin Laden's name, al-Masri mused, "you can convict a person of killing the Dead Sea."...
Malaymailonline-
...But he insisted under questioning from his attorney that he did not know about the kidnapping beforehand and said he felt “betrayed” when he learned about it.
“Innocent people are not to be touched,” he said at his trial in New York on terrorism charges. “You can see this in my preaching.”...
I am told at this point they introduced some of my filming.
...
Abu Hamza denies Yemen kidnapping role as New York terror trial continues
...“I was acting as a mouthpiece, like Gerry Adams” he said. “And like Gerry Adams, of the IRA, you can't afford to do anything that is not legal and transparent.”...
...“I felt angry and I felt betrayed because of the ignorance of the people. They cannot focus on the cause. I did not have control of things.”...
...Abu Hassan, the head of the kidnappers, was “not visualising the real situation”, Hamza said. He said that the Yemeni government knew “exactly where he was” and there were also SAS special forces in the area.
“They will finish him even if they finish the whole tourists with him,” Hamza said...
....Hamza said he told Hassan to keep his focus on the longer term. "I said to him: 'Focus on what you want, you want an Islamic state, you should not be jumpy.'" Asked by Dratel if there was "any discussion of the kidnapping", Hamza replied: "No, certainly no."...
From KWCH12
...He described Osama bin Laden as a hothead, in charge of an unfocused organization that has betrayed the Afghan people. As for the Taliban regime, it doesn't need his money; it has "millions," yet doesn't feed its own people, he said.
But in Manhattan, by invoking 9/11 and bin Laden's name, al-Masri mused, "you can convict a person of killing the Dead Sea."...
Malaymailonline-
...But he insisted under questioning from his attorney that he did not know about the kidnapping beforehand and said he felt “betrayed” when he learned about it.
“Innocent people are not to be touched,” he said at his trial in New York on terrorism charges. “You can see this in my preaching.”...
I am told at this point they introduced some of my filming.
...
May 09, 2014
MORE HAMZA
Hamza tells about his injuries
...He said that during testing, one explosives expert “who was not very good in health and safety,” left behind a container with explosive chemicals. He said the “expert” believed the device wouldn’t ignite unless the fuse was lit but failed to factor in that a strip of “foil on the detonator” could trigger a chemical reaction. He said the container got “hot” and he knew he had to act fast – but ran out of options. After previously being told “if anything goes wrong to throw” explosives “in the bathroom,” al-Masri said he couldn’t because “someone was washing their hands.” So he held onto it. “I felt the explosive,” he said. “I did not go out immediately until I was filled with blood. Then I went into a coma.”...
...He also exchanged chuckles with Judge Katherine Forrest while testifying how simple it was to change his name on his British passport in order to travel to Bosnia in the mid-1990s to provide cars and cash to Muslim fighters.
“It’s simple,” he said. “Pay 25 pounds ($42 in today’s money) and say I want to be John Travolta.”
“Did you go with John Travolta?” the judge asked.
“No ma’am,” said al-Masri, causing chuckles from people throughout the packed courtroom...
from the BBC website
...He is also self-deprecating. He says people have exaggerated the part he played with the mujahideen in Afghanistan in the 1980s.
"Unfortunately the reputation is much bigger than the reality," he says.
He had only a bit part, he says: "Just a couple of bullets towards the communist regime". His past has been embellished in other ways, too.
"All sorts of stories," he says. "Some people say I went to Saudi Arabia and stole money, and they cut off my hands. The gossip never ends."...
from CNN
...As several thousand Muslim men and boys lay in mass graves in Srebrenica, Bosnia, a young boy -- maybe 12 -- wearing camouflage and clutching a Kalashnikov received a hug from a grieving mother. "I wish I trained my son," the woman said. Abu Hamza al-Masri broke down in the tears on the stand Thursday as he recounted the moment, which was pivotal for the radical cleric. He left Bosnia with the belief that training in physical jihad, even for children, is crucial to the defense of Muslims when governments and outside forces fail to keep them safe...
...Al-Masri, who may be the only defense witness, testified he came to London as a young man because loved the Western lifestyle, wanted to make money and have fun. "American style," he smiled. He worked as a bouncer and strip-club manager before bits of Islamic teachings from friends began to penetrate his mind, he testified. The hypocrisy of his lifestyle hit him like a slap in the face. Al-Masri would go on to become the high-profile imam of a London mosque and allegedly inspired several notorious terrorists with his sermons, including failed shoe bomber Richard Reid and 9/11 hijacker Mohammed Atta. He denied on the stand that he ever provided support to al Qaeda or the Taliban government. He noted that he hasn't spoken before a crowd since his 2004 arrest and that a decade in solitary confinement has eroded his memory and grasp of language. The trial has been reinvigorating, said al-Masri, and the preacher drew laughter from in the courtroom Wednesday afternoon as he used examples of marital spats to illustrate the practical application of Islamic truth...
A more comprehensive account on Arab News
And Sky news again ...The tearful cleric portrays himself as a voice of moderation, even as he speaks of his "love" for Osama Bin Laden, in his trial...
...
...He said that during testing, one explosives expert “who was not very good in health and safety,” left behind a container with explosive chemicals. He said the “expert” believed the device wouldn’t ignite unless the fuse was lit but failed to factor in that a strip of “foil on the detonator” could trigger a chemical reaction. He said the container got “hot” and he knew he had to act fast – but ran out of options. After previously being told “if anything goes wrong to throw” explosives “in the bathroom,” al-Masri said he couldn’t because “someone was washing their hands.” So he held onto it. “I felt the explosive,” he said. “I did not go out immediately until I was filled with blood. Then I went into a coma.”...
...He also exchanged chuckles with Judge Katherine Forrest while testifying how simple it was to change his name on his British passport in order to travel to Bosnia in the mid-1990s to provide cars and cash to Muslim fighters.
“It’s simple,” he said. “Pay 25 pounds ($42 in today’s money) and say I want to be John Travolta.”
“Did you go with John Travolta?” the judge asked.
“No ma’am,” said al-Masri, causing chuckles from people throughout the packed courtroom...
from the BBC website
...He is also self-deprecating. He says people have exaggerated the part he played with the mujahideen in Afghanistan in the 1980s.
"Unfortunately the reputation is much bigger than the reality," he says.
He had only a bit part, he says: "Just a couple of bullets towards the communist regime". His past has been embellished in other ways, too.
"All sorts of stories," he says. "Some people say I went to Saudi Arabia and stole money, and they cut off my hands. The gossip never ends."...
from CNN
...As several thousand Muslim men and boys lay in mass graves in Srebrenica, Bosnia, a young boy -- maybe 12 -- wearing camouflage and clutching a Kalashnikov received a hug from a grieving mother. "I wish I trained my son," the woman said. Abu Hamza al-Masri broke down in the tears on the stand Thursday as he recounted the moment, which was pivotal for the radical cleric. He left Bosnia with the belief that training in physical jihad, even for children, is crucial to the defense of Muslims when governments and outside forces fail to keep them safe...
...Al-Masri, who may be the only defense witness, testified he came to London as a young man because loved the Western lifestyle, wanted to make money and have fun. "American style," he smiled. He worked as a bouncer and strip-club manager before bits of Islamic teachings from friends began to penetrate his mind, he testified. The hypocrisy of his lifestyle hit him like a slap in the face. Al-Masri would go on to become the high-profile imam of a London mosque and allegedly inspired several notorious terrorists with his sermons, including failed shoe bomber Richard Reid and 9/11 hijacker Mohammed Atta. He denied on the stand that he ever provided support to al Qaeda or the Taliban government. He noted that he hasn't spoken before a crowd since his 2004 arrest and that a decade in solitary confinement has eroded his memory and grasp of language. The trial has been reinvigorating, said al-Masri, and the preacher drew laughter from in the courtroom Wednesday afternoon as he used examples of marital spats to illustrate the practical application of Islamic truth...
A more comprehensive account on Arab News
And Sky news again ...The tearful cleric portrays himself as a voice of moderation, even as he speaks of his "love" for Osama Bin Laden, in his trial...
...
May 08, 2014
HAMZA IN THE DOCK
Really gutted I am missing this would have loved to be there in person
Asked by his lawyer if he would tell the truth to the federal court he said: "I am no stranger to prison.
"If my freedom comes at the expense of my dignity and my faith, I don't want it, simple as that."
Abu Hamza acted as an intermediary for MI5 and Scotland Yard for years so he could help “keep the streets of London safe”, his defence lawyer claimed yesterday. The former cleric of the Finsbury Park mosque was in “constant dialogue” with British intelligence services to try to avert conflict around the world, it was alleged. Hamza would be called to engage his Islamist contacts to help with the release of hostages as a sort of peacekeeper for the Muslim world. At his New York terrorism trial, Hamza’s lawyer Joshua Dratel said it was “critical” for the jury to understand that the hate preacher’s real aims were actually very noble. Mr Dratel told the court the reality was that Hamza was “looking to prevent terrorism” and not encourage it. “His intention was to keep the streets of London safe.”
I read somewhere else that the judge wouldn't let the jury hear this last bit of evidence and the defence team are challenging this decision.
Channel 4 also on the theme of Hamza's security work-
Joshua Dratel, defending Hamza, who was extradited to the US in 2012, said: "It goes to the theme of our defence that he was an intermediary, that MI5 asked him on multiple times to act in hostage situations, cool down the community and maintain a sense of order."
If you look at 46min 47 sec on this video you can see what Hamza is talking about. He said this sort of thing on the street in the UK quite regularly
...
Asked by his lawyer if he would tell the truth to the federal court he said: "I am no stranger to prison.
"If my freedom comes at the expense of my dignity and my faith, I don't want it, simple as that."
Abu Hamza acted as an intermediary for MI5 and Scotland Yard for years so he could help “keep the streets of London safe”, his defence lawyer claimed yesterday. The former cleric of the Finsbury Park mosque was in “constant dialogue” with British intelligence services to try to avert conflict around the world, it was alleged. Hamza would be called to engage his Islamist contacts to help with the release of hostages as a sort of peacekeeper for the Muslim world. At his New York terrorism trial, Hamza’s lawyer Joshua Dratel said it was “critical” for the jury to understand that the hate preacher’s real aims were actually very noble. Mr Dratel told the court the reality was that Hamza was “looking to prevent terrorism” and not encourage it. “His intention was to keep the streets of London safe.”
I read somewhere else that the judge wouldn't let the jury hear this last bit of evidence and the defence team are challenging this decision.
Channel 4 also on the theme of Hamza's security work-
Joshua Dratel, defending Hamza, who was extradited to the US in 2012, said: "It goes to the theme of our defence that he was an intermediary, that MI5 asked him on multiple times to act in hostage situations, cool down the community and maintain a sense of order."
If you look at 46min 47 sec on this video you can see what Hamza is talking about. He said this sort of thing on the street in the UK quite regularly
...
May 07, 2014
YEMEN
Mary Quin testimony, Mr Hamza starts on Wednesday, meanwhile in the UK the Mirror concentrates on important aspects of the trial. Donuts.
...
...
May 02, 2014
FOUR LIONS IN THE USA
I wish I was in New York for this long awaited testimony although its pretty much what everyone expected more Four Lions than terr-ist training.
CNN
...
CNN
...
May 01, 2014
TESTIMONY
From Saajid Badat
and James Ujaama
An American terror convict told Thursday of how Osama bin Laden's then deputy treated him for a cold with honey and seeds
black seed apparently I know Jamaican grandparents swear by them
...
and James Ujaama
An American terror convict told Thursday of how Osama bin Laden's then deputy treated him for a cold with honey and seeds
black seed apparently I know Jamaican grandparents swear by them
...
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)