UNITE THE KINGDOM 13TH Sept

A visual (gonzo) study of the events of the 13th Westminster bridge was jam up, leading a big group of people to think they could access the event from the other end of Whitehall, where they encountered the counter protest. I tried to film both by Lime bike.

Thanks to everyone for being nice to me all day. I must have looked like a fish out of water. I had some great conversations with all sorts of people and witnessed some even more amazing conversations between people who wanted to relate across the divide. I can't speak to people from behind lines of riot Police so this is better and I know people on all sides of this one.

Do chat to people who disagree with you. At least get some understanding of what they think and why on these subjects close to your heart. I think there is still more people who want to speak than want to fight and there might be serious misunderstandings on all sides.

Special thanks to MistaRax from Speakers Corner for nudging me back into this. Come to Speakers Corner! When Hyde Park is full of people disagreeing on a Sunday we will know something is up!

Though Google have almost killed my page and banned a lot of my work I thought I would dust off Malung TV News for this one as I have been interested in the Tommy Robinson phenomena since the EDL emerged. The same as Hamza and any controversial figure I have taken a journalistic interest in I love to know who these people are, who they say they are and who they are not compared to what we would read in the media. A pre EDL group called the UBA did come to Finsbury park to protest Hamza which I blogged about here. (in reverse order)

http://malung-tv-news.blogspot.com/search/label/UBA

I usually don't put my own views to camera but there is a discussion towards the end where you can see where I am on this subject. I am not hiding and I spoke about to a number of Tommys supporters on the day without any problems whatsoever. I had no need to call them N@zis, they had no need to call me a terror supporter. I am sad "the left" are moody with Wesley and the new crop of Youtubers filming these protests. I will talk to anyone. Be they jihadis or Tommys posse, people are too damn interesting. With the left outnumbered to this extent I can't see a reason not to clearly state your case. Look where excluding people canceling and purity tests have got you and maybe have a rethink.

I will say to that end that I did go down intending to ask other Youtubers if there was any possible avenue to unity between left and right here, as I have been watching people like Dave Smith and Libertarians in the US with something to say, Due Dissidence podcast and Jimmy Dore who will talk to MAGA, Joe Rogan, Ana Kasparian,Flagrant podcast who both interviewed Bernie and Trump and the fantastic left/right news show which has caught the public imagination in a big way that is Breaking Points with Sagaar and Krystal.

Because I went the wrong way I didn't see any Youtubers all day and spent most of it in confusion until the young guy totally of his own accord said about uniting left and right. Most of my friends on the left and the MAGA people I talk to regularly would have no idea what he meant, all say he is naive but he spoke with passion most of what I agreed with being as I am sort of a Russel brand when he still said "fuck the lot of them" before he said vote bananaman the night before the election. It really made my day and gave me some affirmation of doing this as an new gonzo project. I told him he had made me cry and I would pretend it was the tear gas.

It was good to be filming a protest again. These lot are facing the same government media and police tactics we did protesting capitalism in the 90s.

HISTORY

This is a really old TV debate which seems to be from just before Bakri and Hamza's infamous "Commemoration of 9/11"

ATILLA SPEAKS ABOUT HAMZA

Again from Salafimedia, here Atilla speaks about Abu Hamza. Mr Waleeds filming is a bit more pro than mine

AND A BIT MORE HAMZA

...According to the indictment, Abu Hamza conspired with others in December 1998 to take a group of Western tourists hostage in Yemen. The indictment explains: “On or about December 28, 1998, the hostage-takers stormed a caravan of sport utility vehicles carrying sixteen Western tourists and took the tourists hostage by use of force.” The Yemeni military then attempted to rescue the hostages, at which point the “hostage takers used the hostages as human shields and attempted to fight off the Yemeni military,” according to the indictment. Four hostages were killed and several wounded in the ensuing combat. The indictment goes on to allege that Hamza conspired with others and provided material support for a “violent jihad training camp” in Oregon. These efforts included, among other things, the stockpiling of weapons and ammunition within the US. The indictment goes on to allege that Abu Hamza’s two co-defendants Oussama Abdullah Kassir and Haroom Rashid Aswat travelled to Bly, Oregon – telling individuals there that “they had been sent there by [Abu Hamza] to train people for jihad and to assess the suitability of the Bly, Oregon property for a Jihad training camp. [Kassir and Aswat] also both told individuals at the property that they supported Usama bin Laden and al Qaeda, and had received their own jihad training in Afghanistan.” The indictment further alleges in part that Abu Hamza provided and concealed material support and resources to terrorists facilitating violent jihad in Afghanistan, and that Abu Hamza conspired to supply goods and services to the Taliban in violation of the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (IEEPA)...

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ROCK ON TOMMY

I thought I would come out of blog retirement to encourage Tommy. I don't know why I like extremists, they are just fascinating. I think its because I used to be a bit of a christian extremist growing up. Knocking on peoples doors telling them about Jesus was scary but there is something about moving with conviction which I have missed, so when I see it in others, especially when it is a controversial direction in the face of the norms of the mainstream alseep culture it interests me.

I never had a look at the EDL, my attempts to engage with the United British Alliance who came down to protest Hamza years before the EDL existed are here. My film with the National front in Bermondsey is here.

 I have always been interested in Tommy because of the way he comes across. I fucking hate all these middle class journos who twist what he says much more than I could ever hate Tommy. Now they are asking if he has changed his racist ways when it was they who continually reported him as racist which he continually denied.  It still goes on with Paxman saying "If the EDL aren't a racist organisation what are they?" They think they are being clever, it just looks pathetic and at worst a fucking denigration of free speech.

Its pretty much the same as how they refused to broadcast Abu Hamza's continual exhortations against terrorism in the UK. I don't see why intelligent journalists do this. Its like reducing real life to their own soap opera. I think if someone is expousing extreme views it is crucial in a world of free speech to report exactly what those fucking views are. Its actually not difficult either. What gives these egomaniac journos the fucking nerve to add their own layer of grease?

Anyway,  I have always disagreed with Tommy about the nature of the threat this country faces but I think Tommy is as genuine now as he has always been. I don't know. Its just little things like when he asked Jon Snow if he was happy he had left the EDL. Also I know personally from the four or five times I have been in solitary doing Vipassna, its just really good for you. 

It is just stupid to expect Tommy to have completely changed his views. He is on a learning curve and having not grown up in a working class community I have no right to comment on where that learning curve might take him but Quilliam seem like a safe set of hands to accompany him in this case.  

He has been able to articulate a lot of white working class resentment which middle class politicians and journos of all persuasions ignore. It exists whether we like it or not, I always thought that the fact these types had moved on from basic racism to "against Islamic  extremism" was a good thing. I wonder now if the people he can relate to have some faith in him he can be of use talking to them where others cant. Whether we might go on some sort of journey together through this doco. I hope so, it is what the very best TV docos are all about.

When I heard the way he spoke about what Quilliam were doing, he sounded genuine and also made me think yeah, hang on- what are they doing? I look forward to the coming doco. Yeah all the Fundamentalist Muslims I filmed laugh at Quilliam. I don't doubt that dislike of them is one of the only things which unites the Islamic community. I have no idea but I think Majid reaching out to Tommy is the best thing he has done and it touched me to hear how he described how it happened, relating to his own experiences with Amnesty international going out on a limb for him while he was in a much nastier jail that Tommy has been in. 

Yeah people can jaw about how he is being "careerist" and that the EDL were a lost cause anyway blah blah blah.  I have seen how peoples egos get over inflated by publicity, it happened to Atilla. It even happened to me when we became news for a short while when squatting, but I don't think it necessarily follows that people who become spokespersons for extreme views are capable of such cynical manouverings a lot of people are accusing Tommy of. Anyway, all the best Tommy. 

from David.

Tommy and Maajid debating around the Breivik incident 
BBC piece
Tommy on Newsnight
South London Anti fascists say bollocks
as does someone in the Guardian
Mehdi Hasan in the Spectator
and someone on Liberal Conspiracy
Liberty GB say 
"people must face the possibility that some Muslims are sincere in their moderation. If they don't, then they may well come across as bigots"
Do you take Tommy Seriously? The most interesting hour of radio I have heard in a long while on  Three Counties Radio

 Tommys old Tw@
 Tommys "new era" tw@
Maajid Nawaz's Tw@ 
 sorry for the tw@ joke I just can't get the hang of twitter but looking at both these twitter feeds it is easy to see the important work both these guys are already involved with. 

ITS NOT EASY

Being the son of a famous father obviously-


The son of Islamic cleric Abu Hamza al-Masri has been jailed for 11 years over an armed raid on a Norfolk jewellers. Imran Mostafa, 20, from Slough, was convicted with three London men at Norwich Crown Court in September... ...The court was told Mostafa had been sucked into offending because he had been isolated from mainstream society as parents warned their children to stay away from him. His barrister Roderick Price said: "In his early childhood he had a very good relationship with his father who, at that time, was not in prison. "But attempts to socialise outside his home often failed because of who his father was. Friendships proved difficult because children would be told by their parents not to play with him."...

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KIDNAPPED IN YEMEN

Just finished it, I thought it was going to be good. It was excellent. This obviously contains spoliers, so if you are reading for fun, just buy the book. it is really worth it.

"Corporate American" with a taste for travel off the beaten track gets kidnapped, doesn't take it lying down and in the cross fire of being held as a human shield for not a short time either, she finds a rugged cool headed survivalist in herself and lives to tell the tale. Not only lives, but reappraises her life and follows the story of her kidnap wherever it may lead.

Obviously I was reading it, and if I was a journalist would have read it ages ago for the cross over with this blog. Her meeting with Hamza in Finsbury park is very interesting, she obviously arrived before they closed down the mosque, just before my interest in this story began. I will be very interested to hear her testimony in a New York court, as I will be to hear how much invovlement Hamza had over satellite phone in her kidnap.

The really interesting stuff for me was her encounter with Shahid Butt, and Hamza's sons Mustafa  and Mohssain Ghalian. It seems like she spent about the same amount of time as I did with them but in very different circumstances, as she spoke to them in a Yemeni jail. She seems in no doubt that they were on a mission to bomb British interests in Yemen, although she says that Hamza told her that he didn't know his sons had gone and told her he was angry with them.

She definitely saw a different Shahid Butt than I did, not surprisingly I suppose, but she reads a lot more into Mohssin's reticence than I did. I thought he was just a bit shy and didn't even realise he was part of the group I was being introduced to. I couldn't make any comment about either of them really, or about the merits of British relationships with Yemen whether they are a good thing, a bad thing or if Muslims should be doing something about it. I would imagine if you believed they were a bad thing and you believed in your religion as a Muslim it would feel like it was incumbent about you to do something about it, and according to the CIA training manuals the Encyclopedia of Afghan Jihad is based on, bombing strategic buildings and boats would do the trick, and if you were caught in the process your mates would probably kidnap some Westerners. I know Hamza has preached from the Koran about such things.

Mary Quinn is a great writer about this stuff. I sort of wish she would become a War on Terr-r journalist as she is way better than most of them. She says what she thinks about things no problem but she also tries to understand situations from all perspectives which is the best part of reading her story.


Mary Quin: Woman set to testify against 'terror' preacher Abu Hamza ..

MUSTAFA IN THE USA

Very interesting change of emphasis as Mr H comes to trial in the US

AN Egyptian-born preacher charged in multiple terror plots will be outfitted next week with new prosthetic arms to replace the hooks he used before, his lawyer says.

Mustafa Kamel Mustafa needs all the help he can get while at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in Manhattan awaiting trial, attorney Jeremy Schneider said after a hearing...

...He has pleaded not guilty to conspiring with some Seattle men to set up a terrorist training camp in Oregon and to helping abduct two American tourists and 14 other people in Yemen in 1998...

... Schneider told US District Judge Katherine B. Forrest that Mustafa, 54, "has an extraordinary knowledge and interest in helping with his defence" despite the challenges of being housed in solitary confinement in a prison wing where defendants facing terrorism charges are typically held.
"This defendant is going to get the appropriate resources" necessary for a fair trial, the judge said as she assigned a legal team of at least five people to assist him.
"This is an almost never-ending job," Schneider said as his client looked toward the judge.
"This case occurred approximately 14 years ago covering three continents."
Schneider said researching the case will likely cause the defence team to reach out to Yemen, England and Pakistan to collect evidence.
Prosecutors said 47 boxes of materials were being shipped from England, including computer disks and hard drives.
Outside court, Schneider said Mustafa was "ready, willing and able" to assist in his defence but it was difficult for attorneys to confer with him because the prison forces them to interact with a barrier between them...


...“You’re talking about thousands of documents, you’re talking about [foreign] bureaucracies that I don’t think are going to be friendly to us,” he told U.S. District Judge Katherine Forrest in Manhattan federal court on Friday afternoon.
Prosecutors said large volumes of evidence exist in the case, including 47 boxes of material and 700 CDs. They said they are seeking to have some evidence shipped from the U.K...
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9/11 times 1000

You can't fault the enthusiasm but it's probably not going to help his case-

SOMALI militants linked to al-Qaeda have threatened to inflict on the UK a terrorist attack worse than the London bombings of 7 July 2005 for extraditing the Islamist cleric Abu Hamza to the United States.

Al-Shabaab made the threats in a series of messages on Twitter, The Times reports.
One tweet threatened the biggest Islamist terrorist attack yet on Britain: "The nightmare that surreptitiously looms on British shores is bound to eclipse the horrors of 7/7 and 21/7 combined."
Another read: "Britain will pay the heftiest price for its brazen role in the war against Islam and endless brutality against innocent Muslims."
Al-Shabaab also said it would "go to every possible length to attain the freedom of imprisoned Muslim scholars".

more detail here
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IN AND OUT

U.K. Cleared to Send Terror Suspects to U.S.

Well I finally got through all the articles and on the way found that the Rev Coles has finally been "outed" (again!) by The Daily Mail and they have actually done a decent job of the story wonder of all wonders though without his consent. I met him after being directed his way by one of Hamza's cohorts after his arrest in 2005. I thought I would do it properly and went along to one of his church services. At the end when they have a really nice ritual where everyone greets the people around them the woman next to me started describing the trouble the Revered had with the congregation accepting him, and the penny dropped- and blew my mind.

Speaking to Rev Coles he asked me not to write anything connecting them so I didn't cos I didn't want to be responsible for "Hamza visited by gay vicar" in the tabloids. He is a really nice guy and I am glad the Daily Mail have reported his impressions of Hamza in full as these are the impressions I got as well.

From the rest of the news around the subject of deportation I noticed people rightly pointing out that the missing piece in the puzzle Haroon Rashid Aswat is curiously not on his way to the States. I am not really into conspiracy theories of any kind, but this one seems to hold weight as I heard from someone who was detained with him that he disappeared kicking and shouting in the night last seen sane so I am tempted to believe this one.

Also from the Daily Mail Rede Hassaine's account of his activities is very interesting, though reference to "the little known deal described as a covenant of security" is stupid as every Muslim would know of the covenant of security Hamza used to shout about all the time in the street as it is from the bloody Koran. Though none of the TV news broadcasters used to use these quotes pre 7/7 curiously.

I will try and get some reaction from those closer to Hamza, but I am not hopeful anyone will want to say anything at this time.

UPDATE: Not so sure about the Aswat thing as he was in a seperate block and his mental health issues at Long Lartin have been documented

ANOTHER UPDATE: Had to drop in a link to this interesting article about a trial in the US which seems to reference almost every terror trial and act everywhere in the west to date.
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DEPORTATION BLOG COMING

Yes, I know the Europeans have finally decided to deport Abu Hamza . I found out mid tangle with the gurgling toad Buddha and the computers are very strict there. Well everything is very strict there but more about that later. I was paying back my debt serving in the kitchen this time but was still pretty intense. I will read through all the news about Hamza over the next few days and maybe try and get some sort of reaction from those who used to be closer to him. I wonder if people in the States will pick up this blog as he heads over there..

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JUMPING JESUS JEHOSOPHAT ON THE CROSS

Something I have been suggesting for most of this blog has happened, last November apparently-

MPs visit Abu Hamza in prison to gain his views on radicalisation

...Hamza, 53, who was jailed for seven years in February 2006 for inciting murder and race hate, spoke to MPs from the jail as he fights extradition to the United States on terror charges.

Members of the Commons Home Affairs Select Committee visited Hamza at the prison on November 28 last year.

Their report on the roots of violent radicalisation said: ''Abu Hamza believed the drivers of radicalisation to be grievance, guilt and capability.

''Grievances were driven by British foreign policy (relating to Palestine and Afghanistan) and a sense that the Prophet was being mocked.''

It went on: ''He did not believe that unemployment was a source of grievance, and considered that groups who suggested it was were 'blackmailing' the Government for funding.

''Guilt was driven by a feeling that you were safe but your brother was not and you could not help him.''

The report also said that Hamza denied that his sermons contributed to radicalisation.

''He believed it was enough for people to watch the news to be radicalised and in any case he condemned the 'wrong kind of violence', where third parties were injured or killed,'' it said.

''He told Muslims to express their grievances and guilt through lobbying, donating money and educating people.''

The report went on: ''In terms of radicalisation in prisons, Mr Abu Hamza noted that prisons were a good environment for contemplation and that it was usual for prisoners to seek to re-evaluate their lives.''...

LESSONS LEARNED

Not sure how these stories get in the papers. I cannot imagine why Abu Hamza or Abu Qatada would not still be in secure units separated from other prisoners but apparently-


TWO of Britain’s most radical terrorists are preaching hate from behind bars, the Sunday Mirror can reveal.

Hook-handed cleric Abu Hamza and Al-Qaeda chief Abu Qatada are delivering sermons to younger, impressionable inmates at high-security jail Belmarsh.

The details emerged in a letter from IT graduate Bilal ­Ahmad, 23, who is serving 12 years for ­advocating ­attacks on MPs and inciting racial hatred...

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MORE ROBERT

Obviously the guys I was filming from Finsbury are not going to like this guy. I asked Hajj to come with me to an event around his book launch but he didn't want to come, saying he had no interest in government lies and stories. I don't know, and I missed the event in the end due to personal reasons. From this article, I think the guy is more interesting than that.



The former Metropolitan policeman Robert Lambert has been scoffed at as a dangerous buffoon.

In the eyes of British right-wing pundits, his assiduous efforts to develop working relationships between the police and London Islamists demonstrated that he should never have occupied a position of public responsibility.

At a time of fresh arrests in Britain of terrorist suspects, Lambert has delivered a powerful riposte to his critics in the shape of a major study of the theory and practice of combatting terrorism....

There was a load of misunderstanding and power struggles in the Finsbury story that I wasn't a party to so can't comment. I will have to get hold of the book and get back to you after I have run the major points of it past Hajj, who is keeping well by the way. Always nice to visit him.

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WORKING WITH THE POLICE

Fascinating article about a book by retired Policeman Robert Lambert who set up undercover Police group "The Muslim Contact Unit" to eventually oust Atilla and co from Finsbury. His book should be a very interesting read for me.

...The new policy has seen the withdrawal of funding for groups the government says are non-violent extremists - organisations that it says oppose "fundamental and universal" British values.

"All of the 40 or 50 Muslims who came to my retirement are all probably now classed as non-violent extremists," says Bob Lambert. "That's absurd. One minute they are partners, the next they are not."

The former Special Branch officer says his years in the force taught him that too much is at stake.

"It's in the nature of terrorism as a tactic that it only has to secure a small number of people in order to achieve its goals," he says. "I think we need to be much more creative about how we counter that."...



I just found an article by this guy for Al Jazeera and from a very different experience and perspective we seem to have reached similar views-

...by funding Quilliam to work in Prevent the government has licensed a counter-subversion strategy that is antithetical to effective and legitimate community based approaches to counter-terrorism

In contrast to Husain, many experienced Muslim community youth workers involved in Prevent have never been in any doubt that they do not spy on communities under any circumstances.

Unlike Husain they work at the sharp-end and are clear that the only time they will divulge confidential client information to police or other Prevent partners is when they have reasonable suspicion of involvement in serious criminal activity.

As Arun Kundnani explains, "it is right that channels should be made available for youth workers and teachers to provide information to the police if there are reasons to believe an individual is involved in criminality".

That is a basic rule of youth work in inner city areas where Muslim youth workers adhere to the same ground rules that apply in a wide range of government funded programmes aimed at tackling gun, gang, drug and other kinds of street crime.

It would take more than a Prevent 'Information Sharing Agreement' to persuade an effective Muslim youth worker to abandon the golden rule of effective community engagement in dangerous environments.

It is one thing for Husain to justify spying on "radical" Muslims from the comfort of a Westminster office, quite another for Muslims working on dangerous streets to be wrongly smeared as "informers" when their integrity deserves to be bolstered not undermined.

Good Prevent work takes place on poor urban British streets every day. It helps reduce the influence of violent extremists.

However, it owes everything to the integrity of Muslim youth workers, police and local government officials who focus wholly on their original remit.

Their work is seriously undermined by government support for Quilliam and the counter-subversion strategy it embodies...

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SHIV MALIK

I've rarely read anything like this in The Guardian about Hamza

...A few years after 9/11, Hamza believed Bin Laden was tactically wrong to have attacked America, and that he should have given himself up to the international community to stop the Taliban from being overthrown...

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REVISIT

The internet was down for a bit, it comes back on and the whole world is revisiting my story.

WikiLeaks: Guantánamo Bay terrorists radicalised in London to attack Western targets
Islamist extremism: so did we cure the problem? (Andrew Gilligan, interesting article)
Why does Britain have an Islamist problem while America doesn't? Answer: the welfare state (Stupid question, stupid answer, as America has been revealing its own small scale Islamist problem and the very different methods they use to try and contain it)
'35 terrorists incarcerate at Guantanamo sent to fight West'
'Al-Qaeda assassin worked for MI6', secret cables claim

WikiLeaks: how Britain 'became a haven for migrant extremists’

'Guantanamo prisoners held ties to BBC'
London Mosques Train Muslims for Terrorism

US feared London mosque was extremist 'haven': WikiLeaks

US tipped off about al-Qaida cell that did not exist

How political correctness encouraged British-made Islamism (very funny)

Nothing new or surprising really. Hamza was recruiting people to train for Jihad in Afghanistan. The Americans picked up a lot of international Jihadis there. Nothing connecting Hamza with attacks on the west yet, but I suppose once people are out there they must be introduced to the theory. Hajj always said Hamza was against attacks on the west, and the Police have never picked him up yet.

Everyone I met in Finsbury said they just wanted a fight back for Islamic law in Muslim countries. This is consistent with what he has said in his defence and even on the sometimes chilling tapes which have since become famous. In his defence Mohammed Hamid referred to a debate going on at Finsbury as to whether attacks on the west were justified.

Its still impossible to tell what has really been happening as regards to Hamza, especially when the US wikileaks also contains stories like this

Wikileaks: 255 Guantanamo Bay detainees incriminated on claims of eight inmates

This is what I was picking up in 2003. Hamza said this all the time in front of very impressionable young Muslims and it never ever got to TV. Everyone will draw their own conclusions based on what they think already. The story for me is something from the past until Atilla wants to speak I suppose. Meanwhile the banned Islam4UK have metamorphosed into Muslims Against Crusades and are warning everyone about an imminent Al Qaeda inspired attack tomorro..



UPDATE: I thought this was quite funny from the Pakistan Observer who reckon the intelligence community run the lot.

Munir Zamir

How I fell into the clutches of radical cleric Abu Hamza

...He then showed the teenagers a picture of radical Muslim cleric Abu Hamza.

"Look who I ended up with," he said.

"We had a fantastic relationship. It was a match made in heaven – his anger, my lack of self-esteem.

"He wanted me to die on the battlefield."

But he said people often did not understand the meaning of Jihad, which has become associated with suicide bombers but refers to the struggle Muslims face to make themselves better people.

Mr Zamir said: "Jihad is getting to school on time, Jihad is helping your mother with the shopping, Jihad is being the best person you can be."

And he urged the teenagers to read books and talk to family members to find out more about the religion.

He said: "I did not go looking for the answers, they came looking for me."

A former British National Party member, who has turned his back on the group, also spoke to the youngsters at the conference at police headquarters in Ripley.

The event, the first of its kind, was organised by Derbyshire Constabulary's community engagement team which was set up in 2008 to prevent extremism...

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Hamza's slant on events

Jailed Cleric calls for Libyan revolution

What do you think? Sounds like he isn't calling for Islamic revolution either, but speaking as another Egyptian no?

More Hamza..

I'm reading this the same as everyone else:

Radical cleric European human rights claim rejected


and

SCOTLAND YARD PROBES ABU HAMZA HATE BROADCAST

Apparently Mr Hamza got a message out through Hani al-Sibai. This was one of the guys who turned up in the public gallery at Hamza's trial. I had no idea who he was till I saw him on TV much later.

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