...According to the indictment, Abu Hamza conspired with others in December 1998 to take a group of Western tourists hostage in Yemen. The indictment explains: “On or about December 28, 1998, the hostage-takers stormed a caravan of sport utility vehicles carrying sixteen Western tourists and took the tourists hostage by use of force.” The Yemeni military then attempted to rescue the hostages, at which point the “hostage takers used the hostages as human shields and attempted to fight off the Yemeni military,” according to the indictment. Four hostages were killed and several wounded in the ensuing combat.
The indictment goes on to allege that Hamza conspired with others and provided material support for a “violent jihad training camp” in Oregon. These efforts included, among other things, the stockpiling of weapons and ammunition within the US. The indictment goes on to allege that Abu Hamza’s two co-defendants Oussama Abdullah Kassir and Haroom Rashid Aswat travelled to Bly, Oregon – telling individuals there that “they had been sent there by [Abu Hamza] to train people for jihad and to assess the suitability of the Bly, Oregon property for a Jihad training camp. [Kassir and Aswat] also both told individuals at the property that they supported Usama bin Laden and al Qaeda, and had received their own jihad training in Afghanistan.”
The indictment further alleges in part that Abu Hamza provided and concealed material support and resources to terrorists facilitating violent jihad in Afghanistan, and that Abu Hamza conspired to supply goods and services to the Taliban in violation of the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (IEEPA)...
...
Showing posts with label finsbury park mosque. Show all posts
Showing posts with label finsbury park mosque. Show all posts
January 29, 2014
December 31, 2013
October 30, 2012
KIDNAPPED IN YEMEN
Just finished it, I thought it was going to be good. It was excellent. This obviously contains spoliers, so if you are reading for fun, just buy the book. it is really worth it.
"Corporate American" with a taste for travel off the beaten track gets kidnapped, doesn't take it lying down and in the cross fire of being held as a human shield for not a short time either, she finds a rugged cool headed survivalist in herself and lives to tell the tale. Not only lives, but reappraises her life and follows the story of her kidnap wherever it may lead.
Obviously I was reading it, and if I was a journalist would have read it ages ago for the cross over with this blog. Her meeting with Hamza in Finsbury park is very interesting, she obviously arrived before they closed down the mosque, just before my interest in this story began. I will be very interested to hear her testimony in a New York court, as I will be to hear how much invovlement Hamza had over satellite phone in her kidnap.
The really interesting stuff for me was her encounter with Shahid Butt, and Hamza's sons Mustafa and Mohssain Ghalian. It seems like she spent about the same amount of time as I did with them but in very different circumstances, as she spoke to them in a Yemeni jail. She seems in no doubt that they were on a mission to bomb British interests in Yemen, although she says that Hamza told her that he didn't know his sons had gone and told her he was angry with them.
She definitely saw a different Shahid Butt than I did, not surprisingly I suppose, but she reads a lot more into Mohssin's reticence than I did. I thought he was just a bit shy and didn't even realise he was part of the group I was being introduced to. I couldn't make any comment about either of them really, or about the merits of British relationships with Yemen whether they are a good thing, a bad thing or if Muslims should be doing something about it. I would imagine if you believed they were a bad thing and you believed in your religion as a Muslim it would feel like it was incumbent about you to do something about it, and according to the CIA training manuals the Encyclopedia of Afghan Jihad is based on, bombing strategic buildings and boats would do the trick, and if you were caught in the process your mates would probably kidnap some Westerners. I know Hamza has preached from the Koran about such things.
Mary Quinn is a great writer about this stuff. I sort of wish she would become a War on Terr-r journalist as she is way better than most of them. She says what she thinks about things no problem but she also tries to understand situations from all perspectives which is the best part of reading her story.
Mary Quin: Woman set to testify against 'terror' preacher Abu Hamza ..
Obviously I was reading it, and if I was a journalist would have read it ages ago for the cross over with this blog. Her meeting with Hamza in Finsbury park is very interesting, she obviously arrived before they closed down the mosque, just before my interest in this story began. I will be very interested to hear her testimony in a New York court, as I will be to hear how much invovlement Hamza had over satellite phone in her kidnap.
The really interesting stuff for me was her encounter with Shahid Butt, and Hamza's sons Mustafa and Mohssain Ghalian. It seems like she spent about the same amount of time as I did with them but in very different circumstances, as she spoke to them in a Yemeni jail. She seems in no doubt that they were on a mission to bomb British interests in Yemen, although she says that Hamza told her that he didn't know his sons had gone and told her he was angry with them.
She definitely saw a different Shahid Butt than I did, not surprisingly I suppose, but she reads a lot more into Mohssin's reticence than I did. I thought he was just a bit shy and didn't even realise he was part of the group I was being introduced to. I couldn't make any comment about either of them really, or about the merits of British relationships with Yemen whether they are a good thing, a bad thing or if Muslims should be doing something about it. I would imagine if you believed they were a bad thing and you believed in your religion as a Muslim it would feel like it was incumbent about you to do something about it, and according to the CIA training manuals the Encyclopedia of Afghan Jihad is based on, bombing strategic buildings and boats would do the trick, and if you were caught in the process your mates would probably kidnap some Westerners. I know Hamza has preached from the Koran about such things.
Mary Quinn is a great writer about this stuff. I sort of wish she would become a War on Terr-r journalist as she is way better than most of them. She says what she thinks about things no problem but she also tries to understand situations from all perspectives which is the best part of reading her story.
Mary Quin: Woman set to testify against 'terror' preacher Abu Hamza ..
April 19, 2012
IN AND OUT
U.K. Cleared to Send Terror Suspects to U.S.
Well I finally got through all the articles and on the way found that the Rev Coles has finally been "outed" (again!) by The Daily Mail and they have actually done a decent job of the story wonder of all wonders though without his consent. I met him after being directed his way by one of Hamza's cohorts after his arrest in 2005. I thought I would do it properly and went along to one of his church services. At the end when they have a really nice ritual where everyone greets the people around them the woman next to me started describing the trouble the Revered had with the congregation accepting him, and the penny dropped- and blew my mind.
Speaking to Rev Coles he asked me not to write anything connecting them so I didn't cos I didn't want to be responsible for "Hamza visited by gay vicar" in the tabloids. He is a really nice guy and I am glad the Daily Mail have reported his impressions of Hamza in full as these are the impressions I got as well.
From the rest of the news around the subject of deportation I noticed people rightly pointing out that the missing piece in the puzzle Haroon Rashid Aswat is curiously not on his way to the States. I am not really into conspiracy theories of any kind, but this one seems to hold weight as I heard from someone who was detained with him that he disappeared kicking and shouting in the night last seen sane so I am tempted to believe this one.
Also from the Daily Mail Rede Hassaine's account of his activities is very interesting, though reference to "the little known deal described as a covenant of security" is stupid as every Muslim would know of the covenant of security Hamza used to shout about all the time in the street as it is from the bloody Koran. Though none of the TV news broadcasters used to use these quotes pre 7/7 curiously.
I will try and get some reaction from those closer to Hamza, but I am not hopeful anyone will want to say anything at this time.
UPDATE: Not so sure about the Aswat thing as he was in a seperate block and his mental health issues at Long Lartin have been documented
ANOTHER UPDATE: Had to drop in a link to this interesting article about a trial in the US which seems to reference almost every terror trial and act everywhere in the west to date.
..
Well I finally got through all the articles and on the way found that the Rev Coles has finally been "outed" (again!) by The Daily Mail and they have actually done a decent job of the story wonder of all wonders though without his consent. I met him after being directed his way by one of Hamza's cohorts after his arrest in 2005. I thought I would do it properly and went along to one of his church services. At the end when they have a really nice ritual where everyone greets the people around them the woman next to me started describing the trouble the Revered had with the congregation accepting him, and the penny dropped- and blew my mind.
Speaking to Rev Coles he asked me not to write anything connecting them so I didn't cos I didn't want to be responsible for "Hamza visited by gay vicar" in the tabloids. He is a really nice guy and I am glad the Daily Mail have reported his impressions of Hamza in full as these are the impressions I got as well.
From the rest of the news around the subject of deportation I noticed people rightly pointing out that the missing piece in the puzzle Haroon Rashid Aswat is curiously not on his way to the States. I am not really into conspiracy theories of any kind, but this one seems to hold weight as I heard from someone who was detained with him that he disappeared kicking and shouting in the night last seen sane so I am tempted to believe this one.
Also from the Daily Mail Rede Hassaine's account of his activities is very interesting, though reference to "the little known deal described as a covenant of security" is stupid as every Muslim would know of the covenant of security Hamza used to shout about all the time in the street as it is from the bloody Koran. Though none of the TV news broadcasters used to use these quotes pre 7/7 curiously.
I will try and get some reaction from those closer to Hamza, but I am not hopeful anyone will want to say anything at this time.
UPDATE: Not so sure about the Aswat thing as he was in a seperate block and his mental health issues at Long Lartin have been documented
ANOTHER UPDATE: Had to drop in a link to this interesting article about a trial in the US which seems to reference almost every terror trial and act everywhere in the west to date.
..
February 14, 2012
JUMPING JESUS JEHOSOPHAT ON THE CROSS
Something I have been suggesting for most of this blog has happened, last November apparently-
MPs visit Abu Hamza in prison to gain his views on radicalisation
...Hamza, 53, who was jailed for seven years in February 2006 for inciting murder and race hate, spoke to MPs from the jail as he fights extradition to the United States on terror charges.
Members of the Commons Home Affairs Select Committee visited Hamza at the prison on November 28 last year.
Their report on the roots of violent radicalisation said: ''Abu Hamza believed the drivers of radicalisation to be grievance, guilt and capability.
''Grievances were driven by British foreign policy (relating to Palestine and Afghanistan) and a sense that the Prophet was being mocked.''
It went on: ''He did not believe that unemployment was a source of grievance, and considered that groups who suggested it was were 'blackmailing' the Government for funding.
''Guilt was driven by a feeling that you were safe but your brother was not and you could not help him.''
The report also said that Hamza denied that his sermons contributed to radicalisation.
''He believed it was enough for people to watch the news to be radicalised and in any case he condemned the 'wrong kind of violence', where third parties were injured or killed,'' it said.
''He told Muslims to express their grievances and guilt through lobbying, donating money and educating people.''
The report went on: ''In terms of radicalisation in prisons, Mr Abu Hamza noted that prisons were a good environment for contemplation and that it was usual for prisoners to seek to re-evaluate their lives.''...
MPs visit Abu Hamza in prison to gain his views on radicalisation
...Hamza, 53, who was jailed for seven years in February 2006 for inciting murder and race hate, spoke to MPs from the jail as he fights extradition to the United States on terror charges.
Members of the Commons Home Affairs Select Committee visited Hamza at the prison on November 28 last year.
Their report on the roots of violent radicalisation said: ''Abu Hamza believed the drivers of radicalisation to be grievance, guilt and capability.
''Grievances were driven by British foreign policy (relating to Palestine and Afghanistan) and a sense that the Prophet was being mocked.''
It went on: ''He did not believe that unemployment was a source of grievance, and considered that groups who suggested it was were 'blackmailing' the Government for funding.
''Guilt was driven by a feeling that you were safe but your brother was not and you could not help him.''
The report also said that Hamza denied that his sermons contributed to radicalisation.
''He believed it was enough for people to watch the news to be radicalised and in any case he condemned the 'wrong kind of violence', where third parties were injured or killed,'' it said.
''He told Muslims to express their grievances and guilt through lobbying, donating money and educating people.''
The report went on: ''In terms of radicalisation in prisons, Mr Abu Hamza noted that prisons were a good environment for contemplation and that it was usual for prisoners to seek to re-evaluate their lives.''...
September 29, 2011
MORE ROBERT
Obviously the guys I was filming from Finsbury are not going to like this guy. I asked Hajj to come with me to an event around his book launch but he didn't want to come, saying he had no interest in government lies and stories. I don't know, and I missed the event in the end due to personal reasons. From this article, I think the guy is more interesting than that.
The former Metropolitan policeman Robert Lambert has been scoffed at as a dangerous buffoon.
In the eyes of British right-wing pundits, his assiduous efforts to develop working relationships between the police and London Islamists demonstrated that he should never have occupied a position of public responsibility.
At a time of fresh arrests in Britain of terrorist suspects, Lambert has delivered a powerful riposte to his critics in the shape of a major study of the theory and practice of combatting terrorism....
There was a load of misunderstanding and power struggles in the Finsbury story that I wasn't a party to so can't comment. I will have to get hold of the book and get back to you after I have run the major points of it past Hajj, who is keeping well by the way. Always nice to visit him.
..
The former Metropolitan policeman Robert Lambert has been scoffed at as a dangerous buffoon.
In the eyes of British right-wing pundits, his assiduous efforts to develop working relationships between the police and London Islamists demonstrated that he should never have occupied a position of public responsibility.
At a time of fresh arrests in Britain of terrorist suspects, Lambert has delivered a powerful riposte to his critics in the shape of a major study of the theory and practice of combatting terrorism....
There was a load of misunderstanding and power struggles in the Finsbury story that I wasn't a party to so can't comment. I will have to get hold of the book and get back to you after I have run the major points of it past Hajj, who is keeping well by the way. Always nice to visit him.
..
September 09, 2011
WORKING WITH THE POLICE
Fascinating article about a book by retired Policeman Robert Lambert who set up undercover Police group "The Muslim Contact Unit" to eventually oust Atilla and co from Finsbury. His book should be a very interesting read for me.
...The new policy has seen the withdrawal of funding for groups the government says are non-violent extremists - organisations that it says oppose "fundamental and universal" British values.
"All of the 40 or 50 Muslims who came to my retirement are all probably now classed as non-violent extremists," says Bob Lambert. "That's absurd. One minute they are partners, the next they are not."
The former Special Branch officer says his years in the force taught him that too much is at stake.
"It's in the nature of terrorism as a tactic that it only has to secure a small number of people in order to achieve its goals," he says. "I think we need to be much more creative about how we counter that."...
I just found an article by this guy for Al Jazeera and from a very different experience and perspective we seem to have reached similar views-
...by funding Quilliam to work in Prevent the government has licensed a counter-subversion strategy that is antithetical to effective and legitimate community based approaches to counter-terrorism
In contrast to Husain, many experienced Muslim community youth workers involved in Prevent have never been in any doubt that they do not spy on communities under any circumstances.
Unlike Husain they work at the sharp-end and are clear that the only time they will divulge confidential client information to police or other Prevent partners is when they have reasonable suspicion of involvement in serious criminal activity.
As Arun Kundnani explains, "it is right that channels should be made available for youth workers and teachers to provide information to the police if there are reasons to believe an individual is involved in criminality".
That is a basic rule of youth work in inner city areas where Muslim youth workers adhere to the same ground rules that apply in a wide range of government funded programmes aimed at tackling gun, gang, drug and other kinds of street crime.
It would take more than a Prevent 'Information Sharing Agreement' to persuade an effective Muslim youth worker to abandon the golden rule of effective community engagement in dangerous environments.
It is one thing for Husain to justify spying on "radical" Muslims from the comfort of a Westminster office, quite another for Muslims working on dangerous streets to be wrongly smeared as "informers" when their integrity deserves to be bolstered not undermined.
Good Prevent work takes place on poor urban British streets every day. It helps reduce the influence of violent extremists.
However, it owes everything to the integrity of Muslim youth workers, police and local government officials who focus wholly on their original remit.
Their work is seriously undermined by government support for Quilliam and the counter-subversion strategy it embodies...
..
...The new policy has seen the withdrawal of funding for groups the government says are non-violent extremists - organisations that it says oppose "fundamental and universal" British values.
"All of the 40 or 50 Muslims who came to my retirement are all probably now classed as non-violent extremists," says Bob Lambert. "That's absurd. One minute they are partners, the next they are not."
The former Special Branch officer says his years in the force taught him that too much is at stake.
"It's in the nature of terrorism as a tactic that it only has to secure a small number of people in order to achieve its goals," he says. "I think we need to be much more creative about how we counter that."...
I just found an article by this guy for Al Jazeera and from a very different experience and perspective we seem to have reached similar views-
...by funding Quilliam to work in Prevent the government has licensed a counter-subversion strategy that is antithetical to effective and legitimate community based approaches to counter-terrorism
In contrast to Husain, many experienced Muslim community youth workers involved in Prevent have never been in any doubt that they do not spy on communities under any circumstances.
Unlike Husain they work at the sharp-end and are clear that the only time they will divulge confidential client information to police or other Prevent partners is when they have reasonable suspicion of involvement in serious criminal activity.
As Arun Kundnani explains, "it is right that channels should be made available for youth workers and teachers to provide information to the police if there are reasons to believe an individual is involved in criminality".
That is a basic rule of youth work in inner city areas where Muslim youth workers adhere to the same ground rules that apply in a wide range of government funded programmes aimed at tackling gun, gang, drug and other kinds of street crime.
It would take more than a Prevent 'Information Sharing Agreement' to persuade an effective Muslim youth worker to abandon the golden rule of effective community engagement in dangerous environments.
It is one thing for Husain to justify spying on "radical" Muslims from the comfort of a Westminster office, quite another for Muslims working on dangerous streets to be wrongly smeared as "informers" when their integrity deserves to be bolstered not undermined.
Good Prevent work takes place on poor urban British streets every day. It helps reduce the influence of violent extremists.
However, it owes everything to the integrity of Muslim youth workers, police and local government officials who focus wholly on their original remit.
Their work is seriously undermined by government support for Quilliam and the counter-subversion strategy it embodies...
..
April 28, 2011
REVISIT
The internet was down for a bit, it comes back on and the whole world is revisiting my story.
WikiLeaks: Guantánamo Bay terrorists radicalised in London to attack Western targets
Islamist extremism: so did we cure the problem? (Andrew Gilligan, interesting article)
Why does Britain have an Islamist problem while America doesn't? Answer: the welfare state (Stupid question, stupid answer, as America has been revealing its own small scale Islamist problem and the very different methods they use to try and contain it)
'35 terrorists incarcerate at Guantanamo sent to fight West'
'Al-Qaeda assassin worked for MI6', secret cables claim
WikiLeaks: how Britain 'became a haven for migrant extremists’
'Guantanamo prisoners held ties to BBC'
London Mosques Train Muslims for Terrorism
US feared London mosque was extremist 'haven': WikiLeaks
US tipped off about al-Qaida cell that did not exist
How political correctness encouraged British-made Islamism (very funny)
Nothing new or surprising really. Hamza was recruiting people to train for Jihad in Afghanistan. The Americans picked up a lot of international Jihadis there. Nothing connecting Hamza with attacks on the west yet, but I suppose once people are out there they must be introduced to the theory. Hajj always said Hamza was against attacks on the west, and the Police have never picked him up yet.
Everyone I met in Finsbury said they just wanted a fight back for Islamic law in Muslim countries. This is consistent with what he has said in his defence and even on the sometimes chilling tapes which have since become famous. In his defence Mohammed Hamid referred to a debate going on at Finsbury as to whether attacks on the west were justified.
Its still impossible to tell what has really been happening as regards to Hamza, especially when the US wikileaks also contains stories like this
Wikileaks: 255 Guantanamo Bay detainees incriminated on claims of eight inmates
This is what I was picking up in 2003. Hamza said this all the time in front of very impressionable young Muslims and it never ever got to TV. Everyone will draw their own conclusions based on what they think already. The story for me is something from the past until Atilla wants to speak I suppose. Meanwhile the banned Islam4UK have metamorphosed into Muslims Against Crusades and are warning everyone about an imminent Al Qaeda inspired attack tomorro..
UPDATE: I thought this was quite funny from the Pakistan Observer who reckon the intelligence community run the lot.
WikiLeaks: Guantánamo Bay terrorists radicalised in London to attack Western targets
Islamist extremism: so did we cure the problem? (Andrew Gilligan, interesting article)
Why does Britain have an Islamist problem while America doesn't? Answer: the welfare state (Stupid question, stupid answer, as America has been revealing its own small scale Islamist problem and the very different methods they use to try and contain it)
'35 terrorists incarcerate at Guantanamo sent to fight West'
'Al-Qaeda assassin worked for MI6', secret cables claim
WikiLeaks: how Britain 'became a haven for migrant extremists’
'Guantanamo prisoners held ties to BBC'
London Mosques Train Muslims for Terrorism
US feared London mosque was extremist 'haven': WikiLeaks
US tipped off about al-Qaida cell that did not exist
How political correctness encouraged British-made Islamism (very funny)
Nothing new or surprising really. Hamza was recruiting people to train for Jihad in Afghanistan. The Americans picked up a lot of international Jihadis there. Nothing connecting Hamza with attacks on the west yet, but I suppose once people are out there they must be introduced to the theory. Hajj always said Hamza was against attacks on the west, and the Police have never picked him up yet.
Everyone I met in Finsbury said they just wanted a fight back for Islamic law in Muslim countries. This is consistent with what he has said in his defence and even on the sometimes chilling tapes which have since become famous. In his defence Mohammed Hamid referred to a debate going on at Finsbury as to whether attacks on the west were justified.
Its still impossible to tell what has really been happening as regards to Hamza, especially when the US wikileaks also contains stories like this
Wikileaks: 255 Guantanamo Bay detainees incriminated on claims of eight inmates
This is what I was picking up in 2003. Hamza said this all the time in front of very impressionable young Muslims and it never ever got to TV. Everyone will draw their own conclusions based on what they think already. The story for me is something from the past until Atilla wants to speak I suppose. Meanwhile the banned Islam4UK have metamorphosed into Muslims Against Crusades and are warning everyone about an imminent Al Qaeda inspired attack tomorro..
UPDATE: I thought this was quite funny from the Pakistan Observer who reckon the intelligence community run the lot.
April 14, 2011
THE NORMAL PEOPLE IN COURT
Once Atilla and the crew had been seen off from Finsbury I never went back or was ever really curious about the new trustees. Some company approached me about using my footage in conjunction with a proposal they were doing about filming the new posse. I forget what happened. Well obviously it didn't happen but I don't know why not.
Anyway it was very interesting to see them all up close in Episode 3 of the BBC's excellent series See You in Court. I didn't really develop any more opinion about them from watching this than I did on the street when I saw them, but you can't watch this series without developing really strong opinion about lawyers. Trial watching over the years I have never got a good feeling from either prosecution or defence. The system feels alarming in all sorts of ways.
I do remember the Newsnight piece about these Policy exchange people though. I am glad this doco gave the mosque the publicity of seeing those worms wriggle out of the situation by legallese rather than standing up in court even though it cost them so much money.
Anyway as a blast from the past- here is my film from the first Friday the new trustees took over. I only ever really revisit these films myself to clean the youtube numbskulls comment-turds up.
Anyway it was very interesting to see them all up close in Episode 3 of the BBC's excellent series See You in Court. I didn't really develop any more opinion about them from watching this than I did on the street when I saw them, but you can't watch this series without developing really strong opinion about lawyers. Trial watching over the years I have never got a good feeling from either prosecution or defence. The system feels alarming in all sorts of ways.
I do remember the Newsnight piece about these Policy exchange people though. I am glad this doco gave the mosque the publicity of seeing those worms wriggle out of the situation by legallese rather than standing up in court even though it cost them so much money.
Anyway as a blast from the past- here is my film from the first Friday the new trustees took over. I only ever really revisit these films myself to clean the youtube numbskulls comment-turds up.
October 24, 2010
AGE OF EXTREMES
This is the film I ended up in which premiered at The Tricycle Theatre in Kilburn. Ishmahil made the original Blood Diamond doco the DiCaprio film was based on as well as some seminal stuff about Cuba. He is more "anti-media" than I am but then he has had reason to be. Do check it out and tell me what you think. I am at the end of part 4 and a bit more in part 5.
Do check out riceandpeas.com
..
October 20, 2010
BRITISH
There is a market in Jamaica called British with a history of more than two hundred years. Well it is a clearing anyway. A place where as the Jamaicans told me "Independent man can go sell goat, or cow or pig without any involvement from the government". They also sell weed.
Anyway I digress. I thought it was a done deal a long while back, but Mr Hamza in in court again fighting for his British citizenship this time.
"Stateless" Hamza bids for passport (Press Association)
'Stateless' extremist preacher Abu Hamza in bid to keep British passport... using Myra Hindley and John Venables' QC (Daily Mail)
Tribunal to rule on Abu Hamza's British citizenship (Telegraph)
UPDATE: Apparently Hamza is actually in court this time not on a video link. Although I haven't been able to get down there I have had some contact with a journalist who has who has told me he looks OK.
Abu Hamza claims removing his British citizenship would leave him stateless
Hamza told the hearing: “It is not the habit of the Egyptian government to respond to anything,” but he added that he was certain he had been stripped of his citizenship.
Hamza said a 2004 article in the government owned Al-Ahram newspaper “gloatingly” confirmed that he was no longer an Egyptian national.
He said: “I was not aware of it at the time it was printed as it was printed when I was in jail. I just saw it as gloating from the government. It was just two days after my arrest. I was arrested on Wednesday May 28, so on the Thursday it will have been all over the newspapers, then the day after there will have been reaction, the sort of Richard and Judy type thing.”
..
July 08, 2009
IF YOU CHOOSE TO LIVE IN THIS COUNTRY...
Though I am not sure which country it is legal to chuck diesel through strangers letterboxes and attempt arson... Yup. Mr Beheshti, or Abu Jihad and his pals have been sentenced to four and a half years. I like what the judge says
Sentencing Ali Beheshti, 41, and two accomplices to four and a half years, Mrs Justice Rafferty told them: 'If you choose to live in this country, you live by its rules.'
'There is no such thing as "a la carte citizenship" and, in your case, there is no such thing as "a la carte obedience" to the law.'
Andrew Hall, QC, said in mitigation for Beheshti that the arson attack was “an act of protest born of the publication of a book felt by him and other Muslims to be disrespectful, provocative and offensive.
“He wishes me to say now, publicly, that he considers his conduct to have been misguided, disproportionate and counter-productive,” he added.
The Jewel of Medina has yet to be published in Britain.
As I have said before, he was always one of the friendliest people I met in Finsbury. The moral of the story? Just because someone has kind, sparkling eyes and is really friendly it doesn't mean that they aren't going to lob diesel through someones letterbox and set alight to it one day in the future. Very sobbering.
Times, Daily Mail, Guardian, The Book Seller, BBC, Telegraph
June 21, 2009
GLEN JENVEY REVERTS TO ISLAM
OK. Mr Waleed has just told me that Glen Jenvey during a conference call with Omar Bakri has reverted to Islam, taken down his Youtube channel and apologised for his previous attitudes. I think his new name is Omar Hamza.
Obviously this is big news for me as Glen has always been very anti a lot of the people I have been filming. I hope to hear his story or read about it when he is ready.
UPDATE: Abu Waleed is from Salafimedia.com
Obviously a lot of people are thinking this is one of Glen Jenvey's infiltration tricks- I got this from Glen
im fine looking forward to tell the world they should imbrace islam as well.i will be putting the wrongs of my past right and helping all muslim prisoners as a muslim.
may allah guide me and thank omar bakri for his bring me into the fold of islam.
glen aka omar hamza jenvey
UPDATE: There is a discussion about Mr Jenveys reversion going on at Ummah.com including doubts about my reliability, Mr Waleeds identity and a post from someone who doesn't want me to sweep their sidewalk apparently. Thats not very nice is it. Very judgmental I think.
more from Mr Jenvey here
..
Obviously this is big news for me as Glen has always been very anti a lot of the people I have been filming. I hope to hear his story or read about it when he is ready.
UPDATE: Abu Waleed is from Salafimedia.com
Obviously a lot of people are thinking this is one of Glen Jenvey's infiltration tricks- I got this from Glen
im fine looking forward to tell the world they should imbrace islam as well.i will be putting the wrongs of my past right and helping all muslim prisoners as a muslim.
may allah guide me and thank omar bakri for his bring me into the fold of islam.
glen aka omar hamza jenvey
UPDATE: There is a discussion about Mr Jenveys reversion going on at Ummah.com including doubts about my reliability, Mr Waleeds identity and a post from someone who doesn't want me to sweep their sidewalk apparently. Thats not very nice is it. Very judgmental I think.
more from Mr Jenvey here
..
April 22, 2009
THAT WAS QUICK
..Two men today admitted plotting to firebomb the home of the publisher of a controversial novel about the prophet Muhammad.
Ali Beheshti, 41, and Abrar Mirza, 23, pleaded guilty at Croydon crown court to conspiracy to recklessly damage property and endanger life...
I am told that the guy who jumps into shot on the right at 6.08 is Ali Beheshdi. As I have said before he was always one of the most aproachable people outside Finsbury.
Ali Beheshti, 41, and Abrar Mirza, 23, pleaded guilty at Croydon crown court to conspiracy to recklessly damage property and endanger life...
I am told that the guy who jumps into shot on the right at 6.08 is Ali Beheshdi. As I have said before he was always one of the most aproachable people outside Finsbury.
March 31, 2009
ALI BEHESHTI
A FOREST Gate minicab driver is among three men who deny being part of an alleged arson attack on the home of a businessman who published a controversial novel about the prophet Mohammed.
Abbas Taj, 30, of Field Road; Ali Beheshti, 40, and Abrar Mirza, 22, all denied claims put to them at a brief hearing. They will go before a jury at Croydon Crown Court on April 21.
They are accused of various conspiracy and arson charges in relation to an alleged attack in September last year at the Islington home of publisher Martin Rynja.
Ali Beheshti, or Abu Jihad as he sometimes called himself is the only ex Finsbury park attendee that I have seen since with the ex-Al Muj/Bakri crew. He was always one of the friendliest people to me in Finsbury park. I will pop down to his trial if I can.
..
Abbas Taj, 30, of Field Road; Ali Beheshti, 40, and Abrar Mirza, 22, all denied claims put to them at a brief hearing. They will go before a jury at Croydon Crown Court on April 21.
They are accused of various conspiracy and arson charges in relation to an alleged attack in September last year at the Islington home of publisher Martin Rynja.
Ali Beheshti, or Abu Jihad as he sometimes called himself is the only ex Finsbury park attendee that I have seen since with the ex-Al Muj/Bakri crew. He was always one of the friendliest people to me in Finsbury park. I will pop down to his trial if I can.
..
November 02, 2008
THE MAGICIANS OF THE PHARAOH
OK. Taking it from the top, Anjum Choudhary called me yesterday. He took me by surprise as I don't know him and I was recovering from a pretty good Halloween, but if he hadn't have called I might have been tempted to go to some huge multi rig squat party last night and I'd have missed his event today, or worse still turned up with no sleep in fancy dress on some mad mission so all is well that ends well as they say. I turned up without shoes in Finsbury one friday but luckily a friend pulled me away. I am off too much head battering at the moment. I am sure they would say Allah is decreeing all of this. What did I hear tonight which I didn't hear in two years on the street outside Finsbury? Some stuff about going to the toilet and a story about a bull. Oh and there is a new government policy directed at their main man, Mr Bakri. More of all that in a bit.
I turned up at 2pm stopping off at my favourite place on Brick lane to pick up a singara. There were a lot of people, male and female waiting outside for the place to open. I recognised a coupla people from Mr Waleeds talk the other day. I was looking for familiar faces from Finsbury as there are a few people I am worried about and I'd like to make sure are OK. Its been a long time.
Like in Finsbury I stood back, and stood out racially, culturally and fashionably, not that I was fashionable. Although dressing a bit smarter would probably help me in a lot of situations, and people often tell me to do so I find it a lot easier doing these things being myself from the start. It saves confusion. I don't see any point pretending to be all paly with people or thinking that anyone would view me with anything but suspicion knowing that I am a journalist -of sorts.
Once the seating had been arranged I sat down and read my book. I've borrowed Last Night a DJ Saved My Life from Paula so I read about the early history of hip hop whilst projectors were set up, microphone feed back got sorted etc. I've heard a lot of Muslims joke about how they always turn up late for things, this meeting scheduled for two finally got underway at three o'clock.
I'm not very good at numbers, there were maybe 300? Muslims of which maybe two or three were white faces and a couple of journalists who sood out almost as much as me. I introduced myself to Mr Choudary who sat on the stage in the middle. He started the event talking about Muslim prisoners and a desire to see the black flag of Islam over Downing street. He said that Richard Watson from Newsnight was there, and said that he and the BBC were working for the government and would probably hand their tapes to the Police afterwards. He was quite happy for them to do this, and wanted the Police to be sure of what was going on at his meetings. From first impressions he seems the calmest and most serious Muslim leader I have met so far. He introduced Abu Muaz, Head of the UK Salafi Youth Movement.
Mr Muaz straight away spoke about Muslims living without the Sharriah for 84 years. He said Muslims had forgotten the law and their obligations according to the Koran. He said they had fallen for the western concepts of "I think" and "I believe" and that this was a disease amongst Muslims today. He said that Muslims were calling for communism, socialism and secularism and that a lot of them didn't even know that Islam was itself a social and economic system.
He spoke of a blind Sheik locked up in 1996 who couldn't even speak English. He spoke about Aafia Siddiqui, who had been abducted from Pakistan, raped and tortured in Bagram air base and that a kidney of hers had been removed. He spoke of Abu Qatada, held without charge for years. Now he had been relesed he was tagged and under house arrest for 23 hours a day. He spoke about a Muslim in Leicester who had been pepper sprayed for parking on a double yellow line.
He said that he had to go around with a pocket full of belts to give to kids to stop their trousers falling down. He had spent some time at a big Islamic conference called GPU where 30 or 40 thousand Muslims had gathered. He detailed how he had challenged them. They agreed that a lot of what they were doing was haram but said it was all worth it to get so many Muslims in one place. He said they were confused. They thought they needed to read the Koran for forty years before they understood it and only intended to set about implementing it after that. They read books but they don't struggle. What would Mohammed do if he was alive today?
People practice Islam inside the mosque but outside they are secular. In Saudi Sheiks pass fatwahs which decree that the Saudi army are the mujahadeen, yet their job is to kill Muslims who want to live under Sharriah law. Sheiks in this country decree that it is OK for Muslims to join the army and the Police who suppress Islam. Mohammed said that if you join them, you are them.
He said that he had confronted one of the main organisers of the GPU conference. He had asked him whether Muslims should uphold the law of the Sharriah or the law of the Queen. The guy had said this was a "fikdi(?") question- one he was not qualified to answer. He spoke of a Saudi Sheik (Bin Baz I think) who had decreed that it was OK for 500 thousand US troops to be in Saudi, but in the next breath had said that it was wrong for someone to have a christian maid.
The West pushes freedom but doesn't allow people to defend the freedom of others. The west champions freedom of speech, yet Muslims are jailed for words whilst paedophiles go free. He accused the media of being the "Magicians of the Pharaoh" who would always portray Islam in a negative light, using terms like Terrorist, Fundamentalist and Extremist to describe those who wanted to live under the Shariah.
"What do you expect from a dog? Even if you put the skin of a lion on a dog it is still a dog."
He said that they always invited the media, but they always twist and spin what is said because they are a mouthpiece for the government. The government were now passing instructions to schools to spy on Muslim kids, The NASUWT had approved this and were now informing the Police if a kid drew a picture of a Christmas Cracker.
Mr Choudhary then spoke some more about the labelling of those who belived in Islam as "Exremists" "Radicals" and "Fundamentalists". He said that Newsnight had connected every terrorist plot in this country to Omar Bakri. He said they were blamed for everything for just being Muslims, but all these labels would mean nothing on the day of judgement. He encouraged people to smile in the face of those who would attack them. He spoke of a new government policy, introduced by Jaqui Smith to "Name and shame" extremists and said that the first person on the list was Omar Bakri.
We watched a video detailing the fate of Muslim prisoners in Guantanamo, particularly the youngest prisoner who you have probably seen on the news crying for his mother. His mother said Muslims could help by sending money and by turning up at his court case. The video was paused to introduce Omar Bakri live from Lebanon. This didn't quite work out over the net, so Mr Choudhary phoned him from the stage and put the phone to the microphone.
Mr Bakri spoke against man made law and repression disguised as socialism and caplitalism. He said that people should go back to the Koran and the Sunna which contained the only solutions. He said that Muslims shouldn't obey man made laws and that if anyone ordered them to they should tell them they are a Muslim "Loud and Proud". They should walk, talk, sleep and eat like Muslims. He said that "They" want to silence you and branded the new law of inctement "crazy". He reassured people that names weren't important. Only Mohammed was important. Whatever disbelievers said about them they shouldn't worry.
Mr Choudhary said that they should never stop calling for Shariah law, then he introduced Abu Yahya, Spokesman for the Followers of Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jama'aah who would give a talk about "Defending the Honour of the Muslims".
He was maybe the youngest person on the stage. Mr Yahya said someone had challenged a Muslim (In the Koran? I'm not sure) asking if Mohammed had decreed how to go to the toilet. The guy had countered that Mohammed had told them to wash with their left hand, some wierd shit I couldn't understand about stones (piles? clangnuts? fuck knows) and not to face "kiblah" when taking a dump. That probably shut the guy up. I think he said something about the fossilised remains of kaffirs having shit on their right hands. I'm not too sure.
He critisized Muslims for going to the UN. Mohammed had told them that if they went to the kaffirs with begging bowls in their hands "The fire would touch them". He also critisized Muslims for having selfish western attitudes which led them to look after themselves and their families and not worry about Muslims abroad. He told a parable to illustrate this.
If I have got this right, there were three black bulls and a white bull and a wolf who wanted to eat them. Whilst they stuck together they could see off the wolf. The wolf came to the back bulls and told them that if they stood without the white one at night he couldn't see them. The white bull gave them away. He said that this was the US policy toward Pakistan. The black bulls had a discussion like a lot of western Muslims did about Hamza and Bakri. They were a problem. They ditched the white bull.
The next night the wolf attacked the lone white bull who cried "Where are my brothers?". He equated this with the situation in Palestine. Over the next nights he took his chances with the black bulls and picked them off one by one. Mr Yahya equated this with Afghanistan and Iraq. He said that as the last bull died he realised that he had actually died the day he let his white brother down.
Muslims everywhere say "What has Bakri, Hamza and Quatada got to do with me?". Mohammed told them to stand with the Muslim whether he is an oppressor or oppressed. He spoke of the disease of nationalism amongst Pakistanis and Arabs. No one could call themselves a true Muslim unless they wanted for their brother what they wanted for themselves. Taking Shahada (becoming a Muslim) was totally a political thing. It couldn't be seperated from politics like some Muslims say. Musilms would be tested. He berated Muslims for doing nothing about 17 sisters in British jails.
He spoke of an 18 year old Muslim girl who had been taken from a camel train in a raid and presented as a gift to the King of Grenada who raped her. Some Islamic ruler upon hearing this swore that he wouldn't sleep with his wife whilst this girl remained a prisoner and conquered the whole shit, town by town until he rescued her.
He said that talk of the Taliban not educating women was propaganda. He said that the prophet had told them to take half their deen from his wife Aysha. The Taliban had only closed schools when there was a civil war. People laughed when they said Islams black flag would one day be over Downing street. People laughed at the prophet when he said they would one day conquer Persia too.
Mr Choudhary closed this first half of the meeting by stating his belief that a Covenant of Security existed for them in this country as their life and wealth was protected by our laws, but that they should never stop exposing man made law, and never stop calling for the Shariah which was inevitable. Just before the break Mr Choudhary said that all kaffirs were liars. Even if they spoke truth sometimes they were just kaffir liars who spoke the truth.
I couldn't stay for the second half. I left thinking that if everyone at Finsbury thought this lot were in league with MI-5 they were probably wrong. Its certainly an interesting theory which is no doubt popular with conspiracy heads. Maybe I will get round to asking them, to see what they say. Muslims in the press used to say that Hamza was giving Islam such a bad name that he was probably working for MI-5 himself. I also left wondering what I could do with these guys on film which hasn't already been covered. Maybe I could report what they say without "twisting or spinning" or becoming a "Magician of the Pharaoh". Maybe I could be a "Kaffir liar who spoke the truth." Some ambition eh.
Report what people say?
What- Journalism? Here? ha ha ha ho ho. Seriously?
Naaah.
Boring.
No one would be interested in that.
Islam4UKs own video footage of the event is here
Richard Watson presented some of his work on "The Rise of the British Jihad" and chaired a discussion at the Frontline club a few days ago which you can find online here.
UPDATE:
Islamic radicals make mockery of hate laws in The Evening Standard
Why Hasn’t Anjum Choudhry Been Arrested from Harry's Place
..
I turned up at 2pm stopping off at my favourite place on Brick lane to pick up a singara. There were a lot of people, male and female waiting outside for the place to open. I recognised a coupla people from Mr Waleeds talk the other day. I was looking for familiar faces from Finsbury as there are a few people I am worried about and I'd like to make sure are OK. Its been a long time.
Like in Finsbury I stood back, and stood out racially, culturally and fashionably, not that I was fashionable. Although dressing a bit smarter would probably help me in a lot of situations, and people often tell me to do so I find it a lot easier doing these things being myself from the start. It saves confusion. I don't see any point pretending to be all paly with people or thinking that anyone would view me with anything but suspicion knowing that I am a journalist -of sorts.
Once the seating had been arranged I sat down and read my book. I've borrowed Last Night a DJ Saved My Life from Paula so I read about the early history of hip hop whilst projectors were set up, microphone feed back got sorted etc. I've heard a lot of Muslims joke about how they always turn up late for things, this meeting scheduled for two finally got underway at three o'clock.
I'm not very good at numbers, there were maybe 300? Muslims of which maybe two or three were white faces and a couple of journalists who sood out almost as much as me. I introduced myself to Mr Choudary who sat on the stage in the middle. He started the event talking about Muslim prisoners and a desire to see the black flag of Islam over Downing street. He said that Richard Watson from Newsnight was there, and said that he and the BBC were working for the government and would probably hand their tapes to the Police afterwards. He was quite happy for them to do this, and wanted the Police to be sure of what was going on at his meetings. From first impressions he seems the calmest and most serious Muslim leader I have met so far. He introduced Abu Muaz, Head of the UK Salafi Youth Movement.
Mr Muaz straight away spoke about Muslims living without the Sharriah for 84 years. He said Muslims had forgotten the law and their obligations according to the Koran. He said they had fallen for the western concepts of "I think" and "I believe" and that this was a disease amongst Muslims today. He said that Muslims were calling for communism, socialism and secularism and that a lot of them didn't even know that Islam was itself a social and economic system.
He spoke of a blind Sheik locked up in 1996 who couldn't even speak English. He spoke about Aafia Siddiqui, who had been abducted from Pakistan, raped and tortured in Bagram air base and that a kidney of hers had been removed. He spoke of Abu Qatada, held without charge for years. Now he had been relesed he was tagged and under house arrest for 23 hours a day. He spoke about a Muslim in Leicester who had been pepper sprayed for parking on a double yellow line.
He said that he had to go around with a pocket full of belts to give to kids to stop their trousers falling down. He had spent some time at a big Islamic conference called GPU where 30 or 40 thousand Muslims had gathered. He detailed how he had challenged them. They agreed that a lot of what they were doing was haram but said it was all worth it to get so many Muslims in one place. He said they were confused. They thought they needed to read the Koran for forty years before they understood it and only intended to set about implementing it after that. They read books but they don't struggle. What would Mohammed do if he was alive today?
People practice Islam inside the mosque but outside they are secular. In Saudi Sheiks pass fatwahs which decree that the Saudi army are the mujahadeen, yet their job is to kill Muslims who want to live under Sharriah law. Sheiks in this country decree that it is OK for Muslims to join the army and the Police who suppress Islam. Mohammed said that if you join them, you are them.
He said that he had confronted one of the main organisers of the GPU conference. He had asked him whether Muslims should uphold the law of the Sharriah or the law of the Queen. The guy had said this was a "fikdi(?") question- one he was not qualified to answer. He spoke of a Saudi Sheik (Bin Baz I think) who had decreed that it was OK for 500 thousand US troops to be in Saudi, but in the next breath had said that it was wrong for someone to have a christian maid.
The West pushes freedom but doesn't allow people to defend the freedom of others. The west champions freedom of speech, yet Muslims are jailed for words whilst paedophiles go free. He accused the media of being the "Magicians of the Pharaoh" who would always portray Islam in a negative light, using terms like Terrorist, Fundamentalist and Extremist to describe those who wanted to live under the Shariah.
"What do you expect from a dog? Even if you put the skin of a lion on a dog it is still a dog."
He said that they always invited the media, but they always twist and spin what is said because they are a mouthpiece for the government. The government were now passing instructions to schools to spy on Muslim kids, The NASUWT had approved this and were now informing the Police if a kid drew a picture of a Christmas Cracker.
Mr Choudhary then spoke some more about the labelling of those who belived in Islam as "Exremists" "Radicals" and "Fundamentalists". He said that Newsnight had connected every terrorist plot in this country to Omar Bakri. He said they were blamed for everything for just being Muslims, but all these labels would mean nothing on the day of judgement. He encouraged people to smile in the face of those who would attack them. He spoke of a new government policy, introduced by Jaqui Smith to "Name and shame" extremists and said that the first person on the list was Omar Bakri.
We watched a video detailing the fate of Muslim prisoners in Guantanamo, particularly the youngest prisoner who you have probably seen on the news crying for his mother. His mother said Muslims could help by sending money and by turning up at his court case. The video was paused to introduce Omar Bakri live from Lebanon. This didn't quite work out over the net, so Mr Choudhary phoned him from the stage and put the phone to the microphone.
Mr Bakri spoke against man made law and repression disguised as socialism and caplitalism. He said that people should go back to the Koran and the Sunna which contained the only solutions. He said that Muslims shouldn't obey man made laws and that if anyone ordered them to they should tell them they are a Muslim "Loud and Proud". They should walk, talk, sleep and eat like Muslims. He said that "They" want to silence you and branded the new law of inctement "crazy". He reassured people that names weren't important. Only Mohammed was important. Whatever disbelievers said about them they shouldn't worry.
Mr Choudhary said that they should never stop calling for Shariah law, then he introduced Abu Yahya, Spokesman for the Followers of Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jama'aah who would give a talk about "Defending the Honour of the Muslims".
He was maybe the youngest person on the stage. Mr Yahya said someone had challenged a Muslim (In the Koran? I'm not sure) asking if Mohammed had decreed how to go to the toilet. The guy had countered that Mohammed had told them to wash with their left hand, some wierd shit I couldn't understand about stones (piles? clangnuts? fuck knows) and not to face "kiblah" when taking a dump. That probably shut the guy up. I think he said something about the fossilised remains of kaffirs having shit on their right hands. I'm not too sure.
He critisized Muslims for going to the UN. Mohammed had told them that if they went to the kaffirs with begging bowls in their hands "The fire would touch them". He also critisized Muslims for having selfish western attitudes which led them to look after themselves and their families and not worry about Muslims abroad. He told a parable to illustrate this.
If I have got this right, there were three black bulls and a white bull and a wolf who wanted to eat them. Whilst they stuck together they could see off the wolf. The wolf came to the back bulls and told them that if they stood without the white one at night he couldn't see them. The white bull gave them away. He said that this was the US policy toward Pakistan. The black bulls had a discussion like a lot of western Muslims did about Hamza and Bakri. They were a problem. They ditched the white bull.
The next night the wolf attacked the lone white bull who cried "Where are my brothers?". He equated this with the situation in Palestine. Over the next nights he took his chances with the black bulls and picked them off one by one. Mr Yahya equated this with Afghanistan and Iraq. He said that as the last bull died he realised that he had actually died the day he let his white brother down.
Muslims everywhere say "What has Bakri, Hamza and Quatada got to do with me?". Mohammed told them to stand with the Muslim whether he is an oppressor or oppressed. He spoke of the disease of nationalism amongst Pakistanis and Arabs. No one could call themselves a true Muslim unless they wanted for their brother what they wanted for themselves. Taking Shahada (becoming a Muslim) was totally a political thing. It couldn't be seperated from politics like some Muslims say. Musilms would be tested. He berated Muslims for doing nothing about 17 sisters in British jails.
He spoke of an 18 year old Muslim girl who had been taken from a camel train in a raid and presented as a gift to the King of Grenada who raped her. Some Islamic ruler upon hearing this swore that he wouldn't sleep with his wife whilst this girl remained a prisoner and conquered the whole shit, town by town until he rescued her.
He said that talk of the Taliban not educating women was propaganda. He said that the prophet had told them to take half their deen from his wife Aysha. The Taliban had only closed schools when there was a civil war. People laughed when they said Islams black flag would one day be over Downing street. People laughed at the prophet when he said they would one day conquer Persia too.
Mr Choudhary closed this first half of the meeting by stating his belief that a Covenant of Security existed for them in this country as their life and wealth was protected by our laws, but that they should never stop exposing man made law, and never stop calling for the Shariah which was inevitable. Just before the break Mr Choudhary said that all kaffirs were liars. Even if they spoke truth sometimes they were just kaffir liars who spoke the truth.
I couldn't stay for the second half. I left thinking that if everyone at Finsbury thought this lot were in league with MI-5 they were probably wrong. Its certainly an interesting theory which is no doubt popular with conspiracy heads. Maybe I will get round to asking them, to see what they say. Muslims in the press used to say that Hamza was giving Islam such a bad name that he was probably working for MI-5 himself. I also left wondering what I could do with these guys on film which hasn't already been covered. Maybe I could report what they say without "twisting or spinning" or becoming a "Magician of the Pharaoh". Maybe I could be a "Kaffir liar who spoke the truth." Some ambition eh.
Report what people say?
What- Journalism? Here? ha ha ha ho ho. Seriously?
Naaah.
Boring.
No one would be interested in that.
Islam4UKs own video footage of the event is here
Richard Watson presented some of his work on "The Rise of the British Jihad" and chaired a discussion at the Frontline club a few days ago which you can find online here.
UPDATE:
Islamic radicals make mockery of hate laws in The Evening Standard
Why Hasn’t Anjum Choudhry Been Arrested from Harry's Place
..
October 15, 2008
ABU WALEED
I'm an old mate of Atilla so don't worry I won't kill u!
I've been following the tabloid sensations of Abu Waleed over the last coupla weeks. As I said I never met him and questioned the tabloids associating him with Finsbury park. He emailed last night and phoned this morning. We had a long chat about a lot of things Hamza, Atilla, Quilliam Foundation, MI-5, Al Mujaharoun, Bakri, Abdullah Al Faisal, Al Qaida etc. I wrote four or five pages of notes.
We covered stuff from the 1990s right up to the present. Most interestingly for me, he filled me in on the tension between Al Muj and Finsbury park I used to hear about when I was up there and the difference in media style and focus between Hamza and Bakri over the years. He speaks quite fast and I don't do shorthand but I think I got everything. After the roller coaster of knowing Atilla I haven't been jumping to delve back into the story of Fundamental Islam in the UK but talking to Abu Waleed, like talking to Atilla I can't help but be intrigued by the particularly modern British nature of someone talking about such an age old religion.
I am a bit tied up at the mo but I will translate my notes over the next coupla days.
I've been following the tabloid sensations of Abu Waleed over the last coupla weeks. As I said I never met him and questioned the tabloids associating him with Finsbury park. He emailed last night and phoned this morning. We had a long chat about a lot of things Hamza, Atilla, Quilliam Foundation, MI-5, Al Mujaharoun, Bakri, Abdullah Al Faisal, Al Qaida etc. I wrote four or five pages of notes.
We covered stuff from the 1990s right up to the present. Most interestingly for me, he filled me in on the tension between Al Muj and Finsbury park I used to hear about when I was up there and the difference in media style and focus between Hamza and Bakri over the years. He speaks quite fast and I don't do shorthand but I think I got everything. After the roller coaster of knowing Atilla I haven't been jumping to delve back into the story of Fundamental Islam in the UK but talking to Abu Waleed, like talking to Atilla I can't help but be intrigued by the particularly modern British nature of someone talking about such an age old religion.
I am a bit tied up at the mo but I will translate my notes over the next coupla days.
October 04, 2008
TACKLING EXTREMISM
This is very interesting. I've seen this guy before. Choosing my words very carefully as one who talks to these "extremist" types on occasion, I think he has often said things I can relate to as sensible. Obviously he is a lot closer than the useless expensive horse shit about "tackling extwemism" which comes from government. Because he is taking government money a lot of Muslims are going to say that he has made a deal with Zionists and kaffirs and is therefore a kaffir.
This has been edited to tell a story, media types are pinning their hopes on this guy. I'd like to see the raw footage. Not surprisingly I am ominously drawn to attend one of these meetings. I can be honest and say that although I have a huge amount of disagreement with these guys they are brave to still be meeting like this. I don't know what they are saying, I don't trust that a true picture of what they are saying is making it to TV. I saw Hamza preach for too long to make that mistake.
Watching Inyat Bungawala describing them as hooligans who can't be reasoned with made me smile, remembering Finsbury park. Were they hooligans? Yeah, some of them. And as so many were masked in was very hard to tell the difference between hooligan and sincere Muslim. When Atilla gets out I'm going to ask him the truth behind all this- as far as Finsbury is concerned anyway.
I have no idea who these lot are or if anyone ex-Finsbury has drifted toward them. As I have said before everyone Finsbury when I used to go there thought Choudary, Bakri et al were MI-5.
"We don't say any of this and are demonized and arrested. They say everything and remain free?"
There is a loud voice inside me saying "No! Don't do it! Stay away! Stick to your music, find a new chick to entertain yourself."
Christ knows
May 28, 2008
PERSPECTIVES
Two very interesting articles which should be read all the way through. One is a critique of the other. They take a different line over those who replaced Hamza's posse at Finsbury park. The first in The New Republic:
...In 2003, British police shut the mosque, but Abu Hamza's followers continued to have a strong presence in the area. In February 2005, police helped broker a deal for the mosque to re-open under the leadership of the local chapter of the Muslim Association of Britain (MAB), a Muslim Brotherhood group. No sooner had the moderates gained control of the Finsbury Park mosque than they were confronted by Abu Hamza's angry followers, led by the pugnacious Atilla Ahmet, who calls himself "the number-one Al Qaeda in Europe" and who, in October, pled guilty to providing British Muslims with terrorist training. "They brought sticks and knives with them," recalls Kamal El Helbawy, spokesman for the new trustees at the mosque.
Undeterred, a few days later Helbawy gave the first Friday sermon, explaining that this was a new start for the mosque and stressing how important it was for Muslims to live in harmony with their neighbors. Detective Inspector Lambert, the Metropolitan police officer who helped broker the takeover, says that, because of its social welfare work and its track record supporting the Palestinian cause, the MAB has "big street cred in the area and [has] made an impact on Abu Hamza's young followers."...
The critique in The Spectator:
...None of this appears to have occurred to the authors of this article. They have instead listened uncritically and uninformedly to certain individuals in Britain’s security establishment who so lamentably fail to grasp the nature and extent of the jihad, as well as to manipulative Islamists who have played the authors (along with that security establishment) like fish on a line. As a result they make gross errors of judgment in hailing certain individuals as moderate when they are anything but. For example, they write:
Kamal el Helbawy, the Muslim Brotherhood leader who helped bring in moderates at the Finsbury Park mosque in London...
This shows a truly lamentable ignorance. After the removal of the notorious abu Hamza from Finsbury Park, the police did not broker the arrival of a moderate regime at the mosque. They brokered instead a new administration dominated by the Muslim Association of Britain, the British arm of the Muslim Brotherhood whose aim is to Islamise Britain and the west, and whose chief spokesman is Dr Azzam Tammimi, the Hamas acolyte who has publicly supported human bomb terrorism in Israel. As for Kamal el Helbawy, who the authors clearly think is the acme of moderation, he is the main Brotherhood man in Britain and Europe -- and thus central to the whole strategy of indoctrination and radicalisation of Britain’s Muslims and the demoralisation with menaces of the indigenous community, which is putting this country at such risk. Because it’s not just terrorism that creates the danger – it’s the ideas that drive the terror....
I remember at the time Jamal told me that that although they said things people didn't like they terrorized no one. He said the new lot would say things people liked to hear but were actually more dangerous behind the scenes. I have no idea. It was such an uphill struggle trying to gain the trust of Hamza's posse that I really couldn't see myself doing the same thing with the "moderates". As for the tone of the articles, its very difficult to read isn't it. Of course Muslims want an Islamic state. Muslims believe in an Islamic state like Christians believe Jesus is coming back no?
...In 2003, British police shut the mosque, but Abu Hamza's followers continued to have a strong presence in the area. In February 2005, police helped broker a deal for the mosque to re-open under the leadership of the local chapter of the Muslim Association of Britain (MAB), a Muslim Brotherhood group. No sooner had the moderates gained control of the Finsbury Park mosque than they were confronted by Abu Hamza's angry followers, led by the pugnacious Atilla Ahmet, who calls himself "the number-one Al Qaeda in Europe" and who, in October, pled guilty to providing British Muslims with terrorist training. "They brought sticks and knives with them," recalls Kamal El Helbawy, spokesman for the new trustees at the mosque.
Undeterred, a few days later Helbawy gave the first Friday sermon, explaining that this was a new start for the mosque and stressing how important it was for Muslims to live in harmony with their neighbors. Detective Inspector Lambert, the Metropolitan police officer who helped broker the takeover, says that, because of its social welfare work and its track record supporting the Palestinian cause, the MAB has "big street cred in the area and [has] made an impact on Abu Hamza's young followers."...
The critique in The Spectator:
...None of this appears to have occurred to the authors of this article. They have instead listened uncritically and uninformedly to certain individuals in Britain’s security establishment who so lamentably fail to grasp the nature and extent of the jihad, as well as to manipulative Islamists who have played the authors (along with that security establishment) like fish on a line. As a result they make gross errors of judgment in hailing certain individuals as moderate when they are anything but. For example, they write:
Kamal el Helbawy, the Muslim Brotherhood leader who helped bring in moderates at the Finsbury Park mosque in London...
This shows a truly lamentable ignorance. After the removal of the notorious abu Hamza from Finsbury Park, the police did not broker the arrival of a moderate regime at the mosque. They brokered instead a new administration dominated by the Muslim Association of Britain, the British arm of the Muslim Brotherhood whose aim is to Islamise Britain and the west, and whose chief spokesman is Dr Azzam Tammimi, the Hamas acolyte who has publicly supported human bomb terrorism in Israel. As for Kamal el Helbawy, who the authors clearly think is the acme of moderation, he is the main Brotherhood man in Britain and Europe -- and thus central to the whole strategy of indoctrination and radicalisation of Britain’s Muslims and the demoralisation with menaces of the indigenous community, which is putting this country at such risk. Because it’s not just terrorism that creates the danger – it’s the ideas that drive the terror....
I remember at the time Jamal told me that that although they said things people didn't like they terrorized no one. He said the new lot would say things people liked to hear but were actually more dangerous behind the scenes. I have no idea. It was such an uphill struggle trying to gain the trust of Hamza's posse that I really couldn't see myself doing the same thing with the "moderates". As for the tone of the articles, its very difficult to read isn't it. Of course Muslims want an Islamic state. Muslims believe in an Islamic state like Christians believe Jesus is coming back no?
April 25, 2008
QUILLIAM FOUNDATION LAUNCH
Beautiful warm day the other day. Stepped out in my suit heading out to meet Musa at London Bridge, and on to meet Rachel at the Quilliam Foundation event in The British Museum. I got togged up in a suit mainly to make Musa laugh but also I must confess to feel a little less out of place at what looked like it was going to be a very posh event.
"How do I look?" I asked a girl down my street on the way out.
"To be honest the facial jewellery looks more frightening in contrast to the suit than it would to your normal clothes..."
With that ringing endorsement I was on my way.
I met up with Musa as planned to find he had been warned about the Quilliam Foundation by Muslims he knew and that he had been seriously considering giving it a miss. I told him for totally different reasons I was uncomfortable at these sort of things, and was glad that he had decided to come. Musa agreed it would be good to find out for himself what Quilliam was all about as he had been invited and we sort of decided we would keep shtum and just watch.
Rachel was waiting for us outside the Museum, relaxed in bright sunshine. Inside there was a large group of people waiting on the left of the main hall and it became apparent that we had just walked in with one of the stars of the show. I was hoping some of the Muslim's I have met over the years might be there but I didn't recognise anyone. It was really hard to read the crowd. Quite a lot of media columnists, a lot of sombre looking professional Muslim journalists and a very small number of women in Muslim dress. I was glad I was wearing my suit.
Standing in the middle of the crowd were Daniel Sandford from the BBC and Angus Walker from ITN both of whom we had met in Belmarsh courts and at the BBC. Angus straight away launched into how he had been haranguing his newsroom in very sarcastic terms to do a positive story about Islam for once. He stated that on all his stories he deemed it important to talk about terrorists as criminals and not attach them to the word "Muslim".
I like Angus, he always makes me feel comfortable. Rachel told me after that they are great pals and call each other for a gossip all the time. Trouble is, when someone makes me feel comfortable it all comes out.
"Tell me seriously David. Do you really think ITN is worse than the BBC News?"
"Seriously? It looks like it is made by coke heads."
He checked that that was what I was saying.
"I mean, the BBC looks only marginally better. It looks brash and full of itself and they talk in a really puffed up excitable manner about extremism, it all just looks like it has cocaine involved in it. The whole of television looks laced with cocaine to me, I mean at the other end the children's presenters are actually caught with the stuff and die from association with it..."
I told him about how important I thought it was for America's to see A Life in Hashistan, as I thought Chris Turner, a normal American guy with a thirty year knowledge of the Pashtun people had the ability to explain Afghanistan to the US no one else had at this critical time. I rambled on about dogfighting, people going after mountain lions armed only with a strong felt coat and traveling Malungs filling up pipes with huge rocks of dope. A few people round us were laughing but afterwards I was mortified that it looked like I had come up to these people screaming "DRUGS!!!!DRUGS!!!!" in their faces.
Musa and I went on to talk about our “Atilla Ahmet football manager” campaign and about his eight seasons undefeated coaching a schoolboy team. He told us to get on to the Football Foundation who worked in prisons. (I haven't contacted them yet, I've heard back from Arsenal who aren't able to help...) We all agreed that Football was a language a lot of British street style Muslims would respond to.
It took a long time to get downstairs, Musa had a bit of trouble which was quickly sorted when a girl came up saying it was she who had sent the email inviting him. While Rachel was being interviewed by CNN and everyone else a few journalists spoke to Musa and got his contact details and we filmed this:
When we eventually got into the lecture theatre we ended up sitting right in the middle. It all looked really slick and expensive and it was very hot under the lights. After the introduction came some five minute speeches from invited guests including Rachel and Jemima Khan. Musa looked really stern holding his hands firmly on the arm rests as everyone around us politely clapped. In a bit of solidarity with Musa I had decided I wouldn't clap until I had heard anyone speak in a language the guys I met outside Finsbury park would be able to relate to. Musa eventually heard what he had expected to hear. Someone talking in worrying terms about making a "British Islam".
"There is only one Islam." he said seriously. "If I say anything these people'll think Rachel has brought along an extremist.."
I laughed imagining the reaction to this "Brother of Atilla".
The only time Musa looked with anything but discomfort was during Jemima's speech when she said she was bringing up her kids to pray five times a day.
"Mashallah!" said Mus.
We joined in clapping Rachel who delivered her speech with her fathers eloquent preaching in the blood. I'd like to see her dad in action for comparison. Ducking outside into the sunshine for a bit so I could have a smoke we had a frank discussion. We spoke about Muslim's who would critisise him for the way he dressed. In the same way these are Muslim's he has critisism's of. We agreed that the most important thing was whether their heart was in the right place about what they are doing and that people don't judge each other. If we are all here looking for ways to stop people blowing up then we should do that, which can involve critisism's made in a constructive manner. Musa seemed a bit more at ease.
Many people judge Hamza for instance, I said. But they don't know him. I saw him preach loudly against randomly bombing in this country for a year. That's what I saw. But I don't know him. In the same way we don't know these people. You have to speak to people for a long while to feel you really know them, like I had done with his brother.
"Yeah" said Musa, "The sisters criticize Jemima Khan saying she puts it about a bit, but I don't think that makes her a kaffir. (apparently if your are Muslim you are meant to hide your sinning) I mean, if someone takes drugs they are still a Muslim and we should encourage them and I will tell the brothers and sisters that."
"What do you think Atilla would make of it?" I asked.
Musa didn't know. I don't think either of us could see Atilla as part of this, yet we could both see that to seriously make some headway into tackling extremism at ground level Atilla could reach people none of this lot would stand a chance of reaching. I remember thinking I would love to set Atilla on these people with a camera rolling when he got out of Belmarsh but I would be scared that he'd go straight back in again. Maybe they could have him on day release. Hey, that's a good idea for the Quilliam foundation. They like winning debates, they should get some of the brothers out of jail. Can you imagine Hamid taking this lot on? Now that would be an interesting debate. I am still trying to track down tapes of Hamid in action at Speaker's Corner. Obviously I haven't seen the new reformed Atilla. I suppose for whatever reason I am more comfortable with the crazier Islamists than these intellectual ones.
I confessed to Musa that I really missed all the pure nuttiness of Finsbury park. I thought that while Hamza was shouting loudly about not blowing up in this country, the Police had an opportunity to watch people who came and went and the situation worked for everyone except the tabloids. It was an outlet for some serious pressure and although it was bizarre, and a lot of things were said that I disagreed with, it was also just normal legal British protest. I could have filmed there for years. It was ridiculous.
We went back in to catch the debate chaired by Angus Walker. It was really boring. I've emailed Angus apologising for not joining in. I really wanted to tell these people that why I thought I could level with "Islamic extremists" looking the way I do was because I very vocally agreed that the reasons a lot of Iraqis were lying down now who shouldn't be was totally that they had been shocked and awed by a brainwashing, extremist ideology which we had to counter. I wanted to make a commitment to these people that if they sorted the Islamic end out the rest of us would sort our end out. Who's with me?
I wanted to say "Rachel, you are a proper lefty like me; Come on Angus! You are up for a laugh- How does the panel feel about the idea of revolution?"
On a more serious note I wanted to tell these people that the Muslim's I know just think that speaking out about injustice will get them arrested. The louder they shout and the longer the beard the quicker their front doors will be knocked down in the night. Simple.
I didn't say any of this. Maybe I have got these people wrong. I've since read a bit of Ed Hussain and most of his views about foreign policy are similar to mine. It just looked to me like the sort of people who could communicate with enthusiastic bodies eager to pay for this sort of thing but not the sort who could communicate with the Muslim's I had met in Finsbury park. It was all about countering extremist Islam and nothing about seriously countering extremist capitalism like it wasn't there. Unless I am profoundly mistaken there are relatively few Muslims who would mean us harm in this country. The rest of us are hopelessly up to our necks in extremist Capitalism. We can't move without it. To be fair I missed out on the American guy who said some good things at the Doha debates and I didn't get to discuss any of this with anyone after.
Rachel collected us on her way out of the lecture theatre. Angus came up with Rachel and I asked him what he thought of the event.
“Well they are preaching to the converted here a bit really aren't they.” he said carefully. “Let's see what they do.”
Musa had grown nervous that the invite had said there were no prayer facilities. We had been pacing around outside as he had already missed one prayer and needed to make amends. He feared that if he got down and prayed in the lobby that someone would try and stop him. I tried to reassure him that no one would stop a Muslim praying at an Islamic event. When Rachel realised what was happening she quickly and without fuss got directions to the nearest mosque from someone nearby and we left her networking. I often find it amusing that the 7/7 guys have managed to bomb someone who is so natural at London style PR. I am enjoying seeing what she does with it.
When we returned the event was over and we met Rachel outside a cafe in Museum street. Musa had been nervous about what to say to her as we walked back, but when I had picked up some fruit juices I found him speaking confidently and simply about his concerns. Rachel advised him to write to the Quilliam Foundation and to see what they said. This was an ongoing process. Yasmin Alibhai-Brown came by and introduced herself to Rachel and complemented her on her speech. I don't think she noticed us.
“She slags of bloggers doesn't she?” I asked Rachel as she left.
Musa went on to tell us how he had tried to get into the Sates in 2002 to marry someone. He had gone though a European Airport where he was tapped on the shoulder by an American who refused his onward journey claiming he was on a watch list. He pleaded his case and saw the guy go over to take a telephone call. Whoever was on the other end said something which made his face turn like he was sucking a lemon. The guy came back.
“It is you. Musa Ahmet. We are putting you back on a plane to the UK. You should be banned from aeroplanes throughout Europe.”
When he got back to the UK he said there were Police lined up along the walls with two plain clothes detectives waiting at the end. They wanted to know why he was on a watch list in the States and not here in the UK. He was as clueless as they were. They kept him for a few hours and then let him go. Rachel listened to all this and said that it was a good example of why we should go about raising his media profile. The articles in the Times and the Mirror would help. There might be ways to go further.
We parted company with Rachel and wove our way through Covent Garden to the House of Commons to attend a Caged Prisoner's event. Neither of us realised that the public were even allowed in the House of Commons and expected heavy security and Police attention. The guy at the public entrance greeted us with a huge smile and complimented me on my piercings.
“I can't have that in this job, not visible ones anyway..” he confided.
Walking through the chambers of the house we gazed up in awe at the architecture and gilded pictures. We found committee room eight where the event was to take place and waited outside until Musa had enough and led everyone in. There was a lovely view across the Thames through the window. Not a lot of people were there. George Galloway came in kissing a baby. We found out afterwards that the baby was actually his. Jeremy Corbyn arrived as did Yvonne Ridley, Mozam Begg and a very interesting guy from the Green Party. Gareth Pierce joined them later.
I know we take the piss out of Galloway a bit on Socialistwanker but sitting listening to him talking seriously about the plight of Muslim's in this country stopped my sniggering, as did the resounding introductions of his fellow panellists. Mozam Begg spoke about children with parents on control orders who couldn't do their homework properly because they were denied internet access. He was totally convinced that it was this sort of action that radicalised people. The Green party guy said some interesting stuff about how during the Foot and Mouth epidemic it had become apparent to him that the mechanisms of a Police state were already there. He also said that The Government were using anti terror laws against other non Islamic groups with Political grievances at the behest of the Turkish government.
Gareth Pierce spoke about her work representing Muslim's the government were trying to deport. She said conditions in this country weren't as bad as in Guantanamo but that detaining people and trying them without allowing them to access the charges against them was driving them mad. A lot of them ended up in Broadmoor. Jeremy talked about the underhanded way extensions to the amount of time a person could be detained were pushed through by Government. Yvonne said that as she passed Jacqui Smith, the Home Secretary with Mozam Begg. She had recognised who he was and had looked down in shame. I think it was Galloway who reassured everyone that people would remember Mozam Begg and what had happened to him long after Jacqui Smith had disappeared from public life.
As questions were opened it became apparent that there were a number of “9/11 truthers” in the audience. The first couple of people inevitably made speeches rather than asking questions. The last question was from a truther who asked if the panel would discuss the ramifications of the whole War on Terror being built on a lie. As usual with these sort of things the panellists studiously avoided answering until they were prompted again by the questioner who claimed to be a structural engineer. The panellists all gave what they hoped would sound like very general non committal answers.
Afterwards the guy handed round flyers for BBC5.TV and said to someone from caged prisoners that if they supported them, they should expect support in return. No one was impolite enough to say that they didn't believe 9/11 conspiracies but it was pretty evident that was the case. Outside the chamber the obviously zealous guy tried to recruit a passing Policeman who was eager to close up. He accused the people inside of being a “Bunch of intellectuals”.
We left, tired from our adventure and made our way to the tube. These Italian shoes might look nice but they are not made for walking and my feet were killing me. They still are. I told Musa that it was really nice that he and his brother had always been rock solid with me, and that it was nice to have so much fun without having a drink.
“It may have not always been apparent but my brother always liked you.” he answered.
We agreed that without each other we would have found the day really uncomfortable. We had been to a posh media launch at the British Museum and The House of Commons in one day. Writing this a couple of days later I've had the chance to read some of Ed Hussain's work, particularly this in The Independent. He knows what he is talking about doesn't he. Like Rachel, his experiences have put him on a zealous mission. Although I have been critical of the flavour of what I saw I am conscious that we were included as guests when a lot of MPs who wanted to be there were turned away. I have no idea if I will get a chance to speak to any of these people or if I could say anything to help. Obviously we will be discussing all this with some guys ex of Finsbury park to see what they say. My whole experience with all this makes me feel more like a Malung as the years go by. Not being a Muslim I have no theological argument with Ed Hussain. As I say, I don't know any of them. I will be very interested to see what Quilliam does.
I am ploughing through all these articles and will comment on them later..
Sunny Hundal in The Guardian and on Pickled Politics
Quilliam Foundation- Extremism Challenged (Harry's Place)
To lionise former extremists feeds anti-Muslim prejudice (Guardian)
It is ludicrous to dismiss us as neocon former extremists (Guardian)
Jemima receives threats in cyberspace (Hindustan Times)
Think tank to counter extremism (BBC)
All mod cons (Observer)
Jemima Khan backs reformed jihadists (Times Online)
Extremism is going unchallenged(New Statesman)
Muslim plan to tackle extremists (Guardian)
Ex-radicals challenge Muslims to shun extremism (Reuters)
"Quilliam Exposed" blog
First Post
UPDATE: Its all over the blogsphere
"How do I look?" I asked a girl down my street on the way out.
"To be honest the facial jewellery looks more frightening in contrast to the suit than it would to your normal clothes..."
With that ringing endorsement I was on my way.
I met up with Musa as planned to find he had been warned about the Quilliam Foundation by Muslims he knew and that he had been seriously considering giving it a miss. I told him for totally different reasons I was uncomfortable at these sort of things, and was glad that he had decided to come. Musa agreed it would be good to find out for himself what Quilliam was all about as he had been invited and we sort of decided we would keep shtum and just watch.
Rachel was waiting for us outside the Museum, relaxed in bright sunshine. Inside there was a large group of people waiting on the left of the main hall and it became apparent that we had just walked in with one of the stars of the show. I was hoping some of the Muslim's I have met over the years might be there but I didn't recognise anyone. It was really hard to read the crowd. Quite a lot of media columnists, a lot of sombre looking professional Muslim journalists and a very small number of women in Muslim dress. I was glad I was wearing my suit.
Standing in the middle of the crowd were Daniel Sandford from the BBC and Angus Walker from ITN both of whom we had met in Belmarsh courts and at the BBC. Angus straight away launched into how he had been haranguing his newsroom in very sarcastic terms to do a positive story about Islam for once. He stated that on all his stories he deemed it important to talk about terrorists as criminals and not attach them to the word "Muslim".
I like Angus, he always makes me feel comfortable. Rachel told me after that they are great pals and call each other for a gossip all the time. Trouble is, when someone makes me feel comfortable it all comes out.
"Tell me seriously David. Do you really think ITN is worse than the BBC News?"
"Seriously? It looks like it is made by coke heads."
He checked that that was what I was saying.
"I mean, the BBC looks only marginally better. It looks brash and full of itself and they talk in a really puffed up excitable manner about extremism, it all just looks like it has cocaine involved in it. The whole of television looks laced with cocaine to me, I mean at the other end the children's presenters are actually caught with the stuff and die from association with it..."
I told him about how important I thought it was for America's to see A Life in Hashistan, as I thought Chris Turner, a normal American guy with a thirty year knowledge of the Pashtun people had the ability to explain Afghanistan to the US no one else had at this critical time. I rambled on about dogfighting, people going after mountain lions armed only with a strong felt coat and traveling Malungs filling up pipes with huge rocks of dope. A few people round us were laughing but afterwards I was mortified that it looked like I had come up to these people screaming "DRUGS!!!!DRUGS!!!!" in their faces.
Musa and I went on to talk about our “Atilla Ahmet football manager” campaign and about his eight seasons undefeated coaching a schoolboy team. He told us to get on to the Football Foundation who worked in prisons. (I haven't contacted them yet, I've heard back from Arsenal who aren't able to help...) We all agreed that Football was a language a lot of British street style Muslims would respond to.
It took a long time to get downstairs, Musa had a bit of trouble which was quickly sorted when a girl came up saying it was she who had sent the email inviting him. While Rachel was being interviewed by CNN and everyone else a few journalists spoke to Musa and got his contact details and we filmed this:
When we eventually got into the lecture theatre we ended up sitting right in the middle. It all looked really slick and expensive and it was very hot under the lights. After the introduction came some five minute speeches from invited guests including Rachel and Jemima Khan. Musa looked really stern holding his hands firmly on the arm rests as everyone around us politely clapped. In a bit of solidarity with Musa I had decided I wouldn't clap until I had heard anyone speak in a language the guys I met outside Finsbury park would be able to relate to. Musa eventually heard what he had expected to hear. Someone talking in worrying terms about making a "British Islam".
"There is only one Islam." he said seriously. "If I say anything these people'll think Rachel has brought along an extremist.."
I laughed imagining the reaction to this "Brother of Atilla".
The only time Musa looked with anything but discomfort was during Jemima's speech when she said she was bringing up her kids to pray five times a day.
"Mashallah!" said Mus.
We joined in clapping Rachel who delivered her speech with her fathers eloquent preaching in the blood. I'd like to see her dad in action for comparison. Ducking outside into the sunshine for a bit so I could have a smoke we had a frank discussion. We spoke about Muslim's who would critisise him for the way he dressed. In the same way these are Muslim's he has critisism's of. We agreed that the most important thing was whether their heart was in the right place about what they are doing and that people don't judge each other. If we are all here looking for ways to stop people blowing up then we should do that, which can involve critisism's made in a constructive manner. Musa seemed a bit more at ease.
Many people judge Hamza for instance, I said. But they don't know him. I saw him preach loudly against randomly bombing in this country for a year. That's what I saw. But I don't know him. In the same way we don't know these people. You have to speak to people for a long while to feel you really know them, like I had done with his brother.
"Yeah" said Musa, "The sisters criticize Jemima Khan saying she puts it about a bit, but I don't think that makes her a kaffir. (apparently if your are Muslim you are meant to hide your sinning) I mean, if someone takes drugs they are still a Muslim and we should encourage them and I will tell the brothers and sisters that."
"What do you think Atilla would make of it?" I asked.
Musa didn't know. I don't think either of us could see Atilla as part of this, yet we could both see that to seriously make some headway into tackling extremism at ground level Atilla could reach people none of this lot would stand a chance of reaching. I remember thinking I would love to set Atilla on these people with a camera rolling when he got out of Belmarsh but I would be scared that he'd go straight back in again. Maybe they could have him on day release. Hey, that's a good idea for the Quilliam foundation. They like winning debates, they should get some of the brothers out of jail. Can you imagine Hamid taking this lot on? Now that would be an interesting debate. I am still trying to track down tapes of Hamid in action at Speaker's Corner. Obviously I haven't seen the new reformed Atilla. I suppose for whatever reason I am more comfortable with the crazier Islamists than these intellectual ones.
I confessed to Musa that I really missed all the pure nuttiness of Finsbury park. I thought that while Hamza was shouting loudly about not blowing up in this country, the Police had an opportunity to watch people who came and went and the situation worked for everyone except the tabloids. It was an outlet for some serious pressure and although it was bizarre, and a lot of things were said that I disagreed with, it was also just normal legal British protest. I could have filmed there for years. It was ridiculous.
We went back in to catch the debate chaired by Angus Walker. It was really boring. I've emailed Angus apologising for not joining in. I really wanted to tell these people that why I thought I could level with "Islamic extremists" looking the way I do was because I very vocally agreed that the reasons a lot of Iraqis were lying down now who shouldn't be was totally that they had been shocked and awed by a brainwashing, extremist ideology which we had to counter. I wanted to make a commitment to these people that if they sorted the Islamic end out the rest of us would sort our end out. Who's with me?
I wanted to say "Rachel, you are a proper lefty like me; Come on Angus! You are up for a laugh- How does the panel feel about the idea of revolution?"
On a more serious note I wanted to tell these people that the Muslim's I know just think that speaking out about injustice will get them arrested. The louder they shout and the longer the beard the quicker their front doors will be knocked down in the night. Simple.
I didn't say any of this. Maybe I have got these people wrong. I've since read a bit of Ed Hussain and most of his views about foreign policy are similar to mine. It just looked to me like the sort of people who could communicate with enthusiastic bodies eager to pay for this sort of thing but not the sort who could communicate with the Muslim's I had met in Finsbury park. It was all about countering extremist Islam and nothing about seriously countering extremist capitalism like it wasn't there. Unless I am profoundly mistaken there are relatively few Muslims who would mean us harm in this country. The rest of us are hopelessly up to our necks in extremist Capitalism. We can't move without it. To be fair I missed out on the American guy who said some good things at the Doha debates and I didn't get to discuss any of this with anyone after.
Rachel collected us on her way out of the lecture theatre. Angus came up with Rachel and I asked him what he thought of the event.
“Well they are preaching to the converted here a bit really aren't they.” he said carefully. “Let's see what they do.”
Musa had grown nervous that the invite had said there were no prayer facilities. We had been pacing around outside as he had already missed one prayer and needed to make amends. He feared that if he got down and prayed in the lobby that someone would try and stop him. I tried to reassure him that no one would stop a Muslim praying at an Islamic event. When Rachel realised what was happening she quickly and without fuss got directions to the nearest mosque from someone nearby and we left her networking. I often find it amusing that the 7/7 guys have managed to bomb someone who is so natural at London style PR. I am enjoying seeing what she does with it.
When we returned the event was over and we met Rachel outside a cafe in Museum street. Musa had been nervous about what to say to her as we walked back, but when I had picked up some fruit juices I found him speaking confidently and simply about his concerns. Rachel advised him to write to the Quilliam Foundation and to see what they said. This was an ongoing process. Yasmin Alibhai-Brown came by and introduced herself to Rachel and complemented her on her speech. I don't think she noticed us.
“She slags of bloggers doesn't she?” I asked Rachel as she left.
Musa went on to tell us how he had tried to get into the Sates in 2002 to marry someone. He had gone though a European Airport where he was tapped on the shoulder by an American who refused his onward journey claiming he was on a watch list. He pleaded his case and saw the guy go over to take a telephone call. Whoever was on the other end said something which made his face turn like he was sucking a lemon. The guy came back.
“It is you. Musa Ahmet. We are putting you back on a plane to the UK. You should be banned from aeroplanes throughout Europe.”
When he got back to the UK he said there were Police lined up along the walls with two plain clothes detectives waiting at the end. They wanted to know why he was on a watch list in the States and not here in the UK. He was as clueless as they were. They kept him for a few hours and then let him go. Rachel listened to all this and said that it was a good example of why we should go about raising his media profile. The articles in the Times and the Mirror would help. There might be ways to go further.
We parted company with Rachel and wove our way through Covent Garden to the House of Commons to attend a Caged Prisoner's event. Neither of us realised that the public were even allowed in the House of Commons and expected heavy security and Police attention. The guy at the public entrance greeted us with a huge smile and complimented me on my piercings.
“I can't have that in this job, not visible ones anyway..” he confided.
Walking through the chambers of the house we gazed up in awe at the architecture and gilded pictures. We found committee room eight where the event was to take place and waited outside until Musa had enough and led everyone in. There was a lovely view across the Thames through the window. Not a lot of people were there. George Galloway came in kissing a baby. We found out afterwards that the baby was actually his. Jeremy Corbyn arrived as did Yvonne Ridley, Mozam Begg and a very interesting guy from the Green Party. Gareth Pierce joined them later.
I know we take the piss out of Galloway a bit on Socialistwanker but sitting listening to him talking seriously about the plight of Muslim's in this country stopped my sniggering, as did the resounding introductions of his fellow panellists. Mozam Begg spoke about children with parents on control orders who couldn't do their homework properly because they were denied internet access. He was totally convinced that it was this sort of action that radicalised people. The Green party guy said some interesting stuff about how during the Foot and Mouth epidemic it had become apparent to him that the mechanisms of a Police state were already there. He also said that The Government were using anti terror laws against other non Islamic groups with Political grievances at the behest of the Turkish government.
Gareth Pierce spoke about her work representing Muslim's the government were trying to deport. She said conditions in this country weren't as bad as in Guantanamo but that detaining people and trying them without allowing them to access the charges against them was driving them mad. A lot of them ended up in Broadmoor. Jeremy talked about the underhanded way extensions to the amount of time a person could be detained were pushed through by Government. Yvonne said that as she passed Jacqui Smith, the Home Secretary with Mozam Begg. She had recognised who he was and had looked down in shame. I think it was Galloway who reassured everyone that people would remember Mozam Begg and what had happened to him long after Jacqui Smith had disappeared from public life.
As questions were opened it became apparent that there were a number of “9/11 truthers” in the audience. The first couple of people inevitably made speeches rather than asking questions. The last question was from a truther who asked if the panel would discuss the ramifications of the whole War on Terror being built on a lie. As usual with these sort of things the panellists studiously avoided answering until they were prompted again by the questioner who claimed to be a structural engineer. The panellists all gave what they hoped would sound like very general non committal answers.
Afterwards the guy handed round flyers for BBC5.TV and said to someone from caged prisoners that if they supported them, they should expect support in return. No one was impolite enough to say that they didn't believe 9/11 conspiracies but it was pretty evident that was the case. Outside the chamber the obviously zealous guy tried to recruit a passing Policeman who was eager to close up. He accused the people inside of being a “Bunch of intellectuals”.
We left, tired from our adventure and made our way to the tube. These Italian shoes might look nice but they are not made for walking and my feet were killing me. They still are. I told Musa that it was really nice that he and his brother had always been rock solid with me, and that it was nice to have so much fun without having a drink.
“It may have not always been apparent but my brother always liked you.” he answered.
We agreed that without each other we would have found the day really uncomfortable. We had been to a posh media launch at the British Museum and The House of Commons in one day. Writing this a couple of days later I've had the chance to read some of Ed Hussain's work, particularly this in The Independent. He knows what he is talking about doesn't he. Like Rachel, his experiences have put him on a zealous mission. Although I have been critical of the flavour of what I saw I am conscious that we were included as guests when a lot of MPs who wanted to be there were turned away. I have no idea if I will get a chance to speak to any of these people or if I could say anything to help. Obviously we will be discussing all this with some guys ex of Finsbury park to see what they say. My whole experience with all this makes me feel more like a Malung as the years go by. Not being a Muslim I have no theological argument with Ed Hussain. As I say, I don't know any of them. I will be very interested to see what Quilliam does.
I am ploughing through all these articles and will comment on them later..
Sunny Hundal in The Guardian and on Pickled Politics
Quilliam Foundation- Extremism Challenged (Harry's Place)
To lionise former extremists feeds anti-Muslim prejudice (Guardian)
It is ludicrous to dismiss us as neocon former extremists (Guardian)
Jemima receives threats in cyberspace (Hindustan Times)
Think tank to counter extremism (BBC)
All mod cons (Observer)
Jemima Khan backs reformed jihadists (Times Online)
Extremism is going unchallenged(New Statesman)
Muslim plan to tackle extremists (Guardian)
Ex-radicals challenge Muslims to shun extremism (Reuters)
"Quilliam Exposed" blog
First Post
UPDATE: Its all over the blogsphere
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