For the record I contacted the Hamza family through Mrs Ahmet and through Attila's lawyers with an offer to document their side of the story. This offer was turned down. I will of course be interested to hear the satellite phone calls he made to Yemen. I'd love to have done more stuff around those closest to Hamza in Finsbury park as I've found the whole thing fascinating but there you are.
Telegraph, Independent, Times, Express, Australia, BBC, The Spoof, Muslim news, Irish Independent, Jerusalem Post, India etc etc etc
17 comments:
Today seems to be a good day for those of us that are hoping to see positive developments in this war on terror: Abu Hamza (the long john sliver of the Islamist world) is about to get his comeuppance from HMG.
On the way back from work I was thinking gotta get home and read Dave’s blog, there’s most certainly gotta be something about Abu Hamza on Dave’s blog. Thankfully, Dave never disappoints…I like Dave blogs methinks (and I have recommended his blog to my friends and enemies alike). Like I said on my face book there are blogs and there’s Dave Bones (can be very balance for a lefty).
Anyway, Dave I’m having a terrible bottle of Portuguese wine (that I picked up from bloody ASDA, as there’s no Waitrose where live) re the possibly extradition of Abu Hamza to the States. It’s party time over mine!
We haven't exchanged numbers but I would never be rude enough to refuse an offer of ASDA wine at yours.
Warning: never buy cheap Portuguese wine from ASDA (don’t fall for the buy any three for £10 con). I’m regretting it now - woke up at 4am with a thumping headache. So much for my premature celebration re Abu Hamza ‘being sent to the US’. Next time I’ll stick to Aussie wine (from Waitrose or M&S).
By the way Dave, is there anything news on the Mohammed Hamid trial?
I popped in for ten minutes twice. Both times they were cross examining the same expert witness about how you open pdf files with word.
One of the defence lawyers was trying to make out that even if his defendant had an Al-Qaeda mannual on his computer he might not have opened it.
I couldn't see the point and had better things to do.
Fascinating Blog.
If it's Portugese Wine you're after, I can thoroughly recommend Quinta das Setencostas.
With respect to matters at hand, Dave, did you ever see 'Manfo Asiedu' (or whatever he was known as) at Finsbury Park Mosque? Apparently he was a painter & decorator/handyman there.
Asiedu is the one who, at the last momnet, pleaded guilty to the 'explosives charge' related to the July 21st flour-power bombs (the charge that was dropped from the indictment in the latter stages of the original trial from January to July 07).
The connections apparent between the July 21st accused & Mohammed Hamid (& Rauf Abdhullah Mohammed etc) again seem very suspicious (ala the same suspicious 'connections' between the 'Crevice' plotters & the 'July 7th' suspects).
I think that facilitations to these Muslim patsies are being provided........
I didn't recognise them from my time outside the mosque. I'm not really suspicious about the conections between the crevice guys and the 7/7 guy because they were photographed together, I'm not suspicious about the connection between a couple of the 21/7 guys and Hamid because I watched video of them waking up in the morning on a camp site.
Thanks Dave,
I don't mean suspicious in the case of 'I don't believe it happened', I mean suspicious in terms of 'who is facilitating' these guys connecting up?
We know that the July 21st trial charges referred to 'persons unknown' and that both in the 'July 21st' & the 'Crevice' trial, numerous court sessions were behind doors closed to the public & the media (all in the good name of 'national security').
Who is organising the training camps in the Lake District (some Special Branch/Mi5's just happen to be walking on a adjacent hillside?!?!), in Scotland, at the Supper Club, who gave Dhiren Barot 9 passports, who didn't chase up Muktar Ibrahim Said for jumping his court date in Dec 04 etc. etc.
I think that some facilitation of these Muslim patsies (wannabes or not) is going on.......
Fair enough mate.
I've been on this a very long time. The most important decision I made right at the beginning was
NOT TO BELIVE OR DISBELIEVE ANYTHING.
God, Allah, conspiracy theories, ANYTHING.
This has without a doubt saved my sanity.
What I see in the court room is Policemen who think they have caught terrorists. If there is anyone behind the scenes I am not aware. I do not know.
As you see from my videos, Atilla and the guys believed many and varried conspiracy theories. I have listened and filmed. If George Bush sacrifices children to an Owl God I do not know. If there is a secret group of Zionist Satanist who sit round a table ruling the world I have not met them.
I have realised that I obviously enjoy filming and talking to people who believe strange things.
I am not scared of, nor have I had any reason to be scared of any authority I have noticed. I hope things stay that way.
I am interested in solving the problems we face with ANY TAKERS. And thats about it mate.
If you have any intormation to put my way I am always interested.
Should we be suspicious? Yes! There are minority of young men (mostly) who are from the Muslim faith who are bent on committing acts of terror in the UK and elsewhere. These are determined Islamists and will stop at nothing to achieve their goals: bringing terror to the UK.
In seeking to visit havoc upon the UK they (Islamists) have left no stone unturned in getting the ‘right guidance’ on how to prepare and conduct their narrow view of Jihad. Finding a ‘facilitator’ is the easy part. There must be a thousand and one Muslim extremists in the UK (who operate under the radar) who know a Mullah who knows a Mullah that once had links to AQ, AQI or their likes.
Whether we like it or not, profiling is the way of the future in counter-terrorism and I’m guessing the spooks and the decent chaps at special branch are using profiling methods alongside good old intelligence gathering to identify potential would-be terrorists. So, it shouldn’t be a surprise to learn that MI5 and Special Branch were ‘in the woods’ monitoring the Islamists (doing ‘paintballing’ inter alia). If the spooks weren’t (hiding amongst the tree) they wouldn’t be doing their jobs as spooks.
We can’t rule out conspiracies totally, but I just REFUSE to buy the idea or suggestion that MI5 or Special Branch are facilitating or turning a blind eye to the activities of Islamists in the UK. After the events of 9/11 and 7/7 here in the UK it’s unthinkable to think that patriotic British officers serving in MI5 and Special Branch would engage in such a conspiracy (not even rogue officers would consider it).
As I said, I take an interest in conspiracy theories. I neither believe nor disbelieve them.
These are determined Islamists and will stop at nothing to achieve their goals: bringing terror to the UK.
In seeking to visit havoc upon the UK they (Islamists) have left no stone unturned in getting the ‘right guidance’ on how to prepare and conduct their narrow view of Jihad
Who do you think, African neocon, is giving them the guidance?
Who is the stirring up of fear beneficial to? (Are you aware of the Italian Gladio operations?)
Personally, I think that you are talking up the threat, like the government, the Met Police & the media (hand in hand).
If you look at the history of 'Islamic terrorist' cases in the UK, these fall into a number of categories:
1. Cases that were thrown out or dismissed - i.e. the (non)ricin plot & the case of the Al Queda attack on the Man United football game (complete fearspin).
2. Cases where convictions have been secured:
a) Operation Crevice, where the convictions were secured upon the 'evidence' of (FBI?) supergrass Mohammed Junaid Babar & the forced confessions gained through illegal detention & torture abroad [known to British Security Services] of Salahuddin Amin. This was Britain's most expensive trial process, featuring numerous PII reporting restrictions, suspect & witness intimidation, peppered through with MI5 involvement. Indeed, as remarked by the accused "there was no limit to the money, resources and underhand strategies that were used to secure convictions in this case. Coached witnesses were brought forward. Forced confessions were gained through illegal detention, and torture abroad. Threats and intimidation was used to hamper the truth. All with the trial judge seemingly intent to assist the prosecution almost every step of the way.
These were just some of the means used in the desperate effort to convict. Anyone looking impartially at the evidence would realise that there was no conspiracy to cause explosions in the UK, and that we did not pose any threat to the security of this country.".
Hardly the words of proud Jihadists, but rather angry young Muslim men thwarted by their 'guides' (who never seem to be caught!) (Read the statements here.)
b) The July 21st events. Again, numerous coached & anonymous witnesses, secret court sessions the quiet dropping of the 'explosives' conspiracy charge from the latter stages of the original trial because an expert witness (Professor Hans Michels of Imperial College London) declared that the devices were not capable of exploding. So even with the CCTV evidence against the 4 originally convicted (Osman, Ibrahim, Mohammed, Omar) of conspiracy to murder with other persons, a jury could not find these 4 guilty of the 'explosives' charge.
The very same (but lesser)charge that Manfo Asiedu has recently pleaded guilty to in a (closed) Case Management hearing!!!
Add to that the (lack of) weight of the evidence (0.000000411 grams of TAPT found in the Curtis House kitchen waste pipes....).
c) Thoughtcrime extrordinairre Eesa (Dhiren) Barot. Even by the police's admission "there was not one shred of admissible evidence against Barot, but of course, he did plead guilty though - (thoughtcrime) case closed.
The next category of 'Islamic terror is the recent convictions, which have only been secured since the October 2005 amendments to the Terror Act 2000, shoehorned in after the July 7th events.
You'll notice that in the trial of those charged with involvement in the August 2006 Terror Liquid Explosive Airline Plot, there is no mention of Liquids or explosives or airlines, but plenty mention of file copies (whether opened/read or not) of the Al Queda Handbook (published in the USA, by the way).
Sure, there are idiots & thugs & wannabees & patsies within the Islamic community (as Dave B. is no doubt aware of), just as there is in every community, but when one cuts through the horseshit that we are being fed, the Islamic threat is way way overblown.
I would say so but is it a conspiracy or does it just sell papers? Interesting stuff about the crevice guys cheers. But there was video of them with tons of fertilizer in a lock up. I saw a witness giving evidence who worked on the desk. Whats that about?
From the Times report of 31/3/2004, the industrial sack of ammonium nitrate fertiliser was stored at the Access storage company in Boston Road, Hanwell. The Times report also states that value of the fertiliser was about £60, however according to this Guardian report of 30/4/2007, the ‘gang’ rented the lock up for £207 per month. It was also revealed that the person whose credit card had paid for the storage charges was Nabeel Hussain, who was acquitted of all charges (& whose photo never appeared in public prior to the conclusion of the trial - unlike the others).
The woman who gave evidence was possibly Emma Wallis who, one day in February 2004, was told by (her boyfriend/regional manager/ex employee etc.?) Paul Best to ring the police. Or it may have been a policewoman (the BBC report of May 2007 states that “As part of Operation Crevice the anti-terrorist squad used an undercover policewoman, posing as an Access receptionist, to ring up the man who had rented the unit and query an overdue payment.”)
Some early reports on ‘Crevice’, worth studying:
Times 31/3/2004
Times 31/3/2004
Times 1/4/2004
Times 1/4/2004
Times 1/4/2004
Now try & fit in these details around this ‘fearspin’ Sunday Times article from 4th April 2004 which tries to big up the Al Queda angle with mentions of American NSA satellites picking up instructions for an attack passing between Al-Qaeda commanders in Pakistan and associates in Britain. None of this nonsense appeared in court during the trial of course, & neither did Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, who was also mentioned in the Sunday Times piece.
Of course it is all conspiracy stuff. The word ‘conspiracy’ features in the court indictments…. Conspiracy to do this, conspiracy to do that………
& of course it also sells papers
Cheers. What about the conversation recorded of one of them saying they wanted to blow up slags in the Ministry of Sound?
(I'm not disputing the slags bit..)
Anonymous
Who do I think is giving them (Islamists) guidance? Well it’s certainly not MI5, Special Branch or the Media that you accuse of talking up the threat. However, I do remember perusing a number of websites that have well-known anti-western Mullahs urging Muslims to carry out attacks against infidels. On one particular site there’s a collection of videos on subjects like is it appropriate to bomb Western embassies? I also remember when Abu Hamza was sentence the media released a video of him preaching death to Jews every where any by any means. Is this guidance or rhetorical guff? I’ll let you decide.
You accuse HMG of talking up the threat. Why would the government want to talk up the threat when the threat (‘to our way of life’) is plain to see around the world? This summer the Scots learned that they were not immune to Islamist terror. Yes, many cynics will point to the Afghanistan and Iraqi campaigns, but I’m sure you’ll agree that Islamic terrorism was in play before these campaigns by the West.
I know it’s not a true reflection of Muslims (and even Islamists), but when I’m at Speakers’ Corner every Sunday it reinforces my belief why the West must maintain vigilance re Islamist terror in the UK and elsewhere. There (in the Park) their anger and hatred for the West is REAL and they use their right of freedom of speech to push the barriers of that right.
My final question to you is: do you know of any Islamist plot where the government [MI5] has been proven to be implicated in providing guidance to these would-be terrorists?
Dave,
Listen to the 'slags' conversation at the BBC here. The recordings were made by Mi5 at the uxbridge flat of Jawad Akbar during a 2½ hour meeting between Akbar & Omar Khyam on 22 February 2004.
Listen again to the recording Dave & ask yourself 'Is this an example of the planning of two 'Jihadists' during a 2½ hour meeting? or is it just rumination?
Remember that the 'truck bomb' / attack on Ministry of Sound nightclub / Bluewater shopping centres / poisoned Bovril at football matches etc. memes were running from day 1 of the arrests.
--
African neocon:
I don’t think that it would ever be proven that there was such complicity by elements of the state in such cases. Such involvements are always at a level that is never revealed or acknowledged in court (the Public Interest Immunity [PII] mechanism).
But for tasters, we know that there was Mi5 involvement with Mohammed Siddique Khan during the ‘Crevice’ operations – he ‘featured in a security operation carried out the intelligence services’ and was filmed and recorded.
Did you check out the Times links in my previous posting? Who was this Mi5 contact ‘Mr. Goulding’ whom Omar Khyam and his brother were connected with?
Anonymous
Somehow I feel you are really hell bent on trying to fit ‘Thames House’ into this sordid picture of Islamic terror in the UK. The UK is under [Islamic] threat that we know. The chaps at ‘Thames House’ know this better than any of us and they duly warn the UK public. This is how I see it: there’s no reason and it would be unconscionable and unthinkable that the decent officers at ‘Thames House’ (who have taken an oath to protect the UK) would launch some wild hair black op with rogue spooks to blow up or implicate Muslims to heighten the threat from Islamic terror. This only happens in Hollywood movies and the guys at ‘Thames House’ DON’T DO FICTION and nor should we buy into conspiracies the like that we hear all too often and convincingly put by the para-politic anoraks at Speakers’ Corner every Sunday.
My question again would be: what about the sack of fertilizer? What was it for? Who bought it? Where did the funds come from? The evidence we have in the open suggests the Islamists. Or is there some link to ‘Mr Goulding’ providing funds for this? Public documents and information sourced from the media suggests that the Islamists (Crevice chaps) were using credit card fraud for their funding.
As to ‘Mr Goulding’, should it be a surprise that ‘Thames House’ targeted the likes of Khyam with the aim of ‘turning’ them for the benefit of this country’s national security? If the no-names ‘Mr Goulding’ did, he was doing his job of which HMG would expect of ‘Thames House’: targeting and recruiting of the enemy. But targeting and attempting to recruit a potential Islamist with the aim of ‘turning’ him is hardly sufficiently evidence to suggest that ‘Thames House’ were facilitating terror in the UK. There must come a time when we must place our trust in the ability and professionalism of our security services’.
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