Someone from the UBA has contacted me.(see socialistwanker archive) Apparently they have a policy of not revealing their names to the press and if they were to film with me they would want to be unrecognisable. (as do most of the Muslims I talk to- would it be easier to do a radio show instead?) He gave me a brief run down of events in Trafalgar sq (see TOURISTS AND TERRORISTS) which he considered to be a bit shambolic but sucessful as they forced Al-Mujharoun to locate to "a car park somewhere down in Essex in front of one man and his dog".
He also points out that the UBA have good relations with the large Sikh group who also came down to protest Al-Mujharoun. I'm going to quote a fair bit from his email.
"For the first time in a number of years this country’s greatest monument was free from ‘them’ and their hideous preaching and propaganda, which is what we are really all about".
He claims 350 marched recently (as noted in a comment earlier on this blog) and they also went to Grovesnor sq to show solidarity with those who died on 9/11.
Apparently I was wrong when I said they had dispanded, they have just changed message boards a couple of times.
"Since the bombings, of course, our numbers have rocketed – it’s a shame that it took the bombings to have this effect, but it’s a fact of life that most people need shocking into reality...
much of what the UBA has been saying for a very long time now about the ‘preachers of hate’, the need for loyalty to one’s country and flag, etc etc, the government is now at last deciding to act upon – what a shame it has taken the lives of 53 people and the attempted murder of many more to make this government see sense, as we in the UBA have seen sense for a very long time now.
For some reason we were critisised then for saying these things before the bombings, and we are still critisised for being some sort of extreme right wing group, which we are not –it seems that no matter how much sense we make, and are seen to make, in the long term certain media (usually the left wing) refuse to remove the unfair brand of ‘right wing extremist’ from the UBA as a group even though we regularly have non-white people protest under our banner....
for one reason or another the UBA is branded by some as extremist right wing, racist, full of hate etc etc, and we have been portrayed as just that in the past, when nothing could be further from the truth...
My contact with the UBA came about through my love of football but that is all. (ie not football violence) I am a British patriot, who loves his country and holds dear its traditions and its way of life – and refuse to lie down and say nothing while I see it change for the worse in order to try to appease an ungrateful minority who reap all the benefits of this country but refuse to integrate with us, or even live peacefully (I do not by a long chalk mean ordinary everyday Muslims in that statement, just those fanatics who resent ‘kaafirs’ being in authority over them for religious reasons etc).
I and many of us feel that it is us, the descendants of the people who have lived in this land the longest who are now being overlooked, not listened to, ridden roughshod over and misunderstood in this government's and the left wing authorities’ quest for some sort of ‘political correctness’.
We hope that the UBA might be able to provide a voice for those of us who fall under this category – it is my hope that the normally silent majority at last decide to speak up, and that the day might once again come that we are not ashamed to do so and do not feel intimidated not to do so".
He assures me that were he to meet with some of the Muslims I have been filming with there would be no violence, and that he regularly has debates with such people at Speakers corner in Hyde park.
11 comments:
US conservatives get smeared in our press, and the UK press is is much further left. So I'll bet they are treated very unfairly. (I'd have to learn a lot more about them to vouch for them. The UBA has no connection with the National Front?)
"He assures me that were he to meet with some of the Muslims ... there would be no violence..."
But that might not be completely up to him, as it wasn't for Theo van Gogh.
Some Police believe that they are monitoring the UBA because a lot of them used to be into football violence allegedly.
I have also heard a Policeman speaking out in defence of the UBA to a journalist once though I did not get it on camera and no member of the UBA heard.
Theo van Gogh comment noted.
Why didn't they want to kill me then?
First - thank you Dave for your article about the UBA, in my view it goes a long way towards putting the record straight.
I would like to confirm that the UBA has no connection whatsoever with the National Front! We are a non-racist all-inclusive group of people. No matter what colour or creed you are, if you love Britain, it's traditions and it's people and are proud of the flag and proud to be British, you are welcome. You do not have to be a racist to be a patriot, and we strive to keep racism out of patriotism.
This comment is posted by an active member of the UBA and the author of the email quoted in the article.
Thankyou for trusting me with your words. As I have said I see no reason to twist them.
As you know I have a very different opinion to you regarding Abu Hamza and his friends, the ones I have met anyway. I have seen Mr.Bakri speak once but apart from that I have only seen him and his friends on TV sometimes.
I am very interested in your notion of "Britishness" as again it is very different to mine.
I know from looking at your first forum that a few of you are
"ex-racists against Islamic terrorism"
which is an interesting concept in itself. If you know someone who would like to email me about why he gave up racism please do forward.
Thanks again.
Hi Dave,
Thank you for posting my comment and for your reply.
On a personal level, I have never in my entire life been a racist, and indeed have fought racism on the net for quite some time. I for one am NOT an "ex-racist", which is the term you use. Although I have no doubt that some racists appear on our message board, the message board is moderated to the best of our ability to exclude that sort of thing. If a racist happens to march under our banner he knows that he marches for what the UBA as a group stand for, and not any racism that may or may not go on in his head. The UBA has time and time again said it is non-racist and all inclusive, I don't know what more we can do to convince people. If one person, or even a few, declares themselves as "ex-racist" on our message board, is it right for anyone to tar myself and all the others with the same brush? You and I both know that the Labour party is full of 'ex-communists', but I don't brand everyone in the Labour party as such because of the actions of a few and I don't brand the Labour Party as Communist. Whether some of our members are racist/ex-racists I think is getting away from the point that we are trying to make, and it is a sideshow in which the UBA - as a group - would rather not partake! The majority of us are just normal everyday British patriots who share similar opinions - the vast majority of us do not care about the colour of a person's skin, we have Jews, we have Hindus, we have Sikhs, we have athiests, we have all manner of non-whites among us - we all have differing opinions about various things, but the one thing we have in common is our love for our country, the British way of life and traditions, and our flag.
As for Bakri, I can post you link after link after link of him quoting his hate for our British way of life, of his wish and belief that the 'black flag of Islam will fly over the houses of Parliament in our lifetime'. He has gone on the record now encouraging Jihad in Britain - how can this be right? Hamza - his words against the west and the culture I hold dear, and his rabble-rousing are legendary. Richard Reid, the shoe bomber - I believe - was was one of 'the Hamza group's' converts. Maybe you can explain to me how Hamza is a friend to the British and is good for our country, how he is grateful to us for giving him sanctuary from those who would torture and kill him in his own country, because I certainly can't work it out. My view on the foreign born 'preachers of hate' we have in this country at the moment is simple, they should be rounded up forthwith and deported to their country of origin.
My notion of Britishness is simple, it is a love for your country, loyalty to your country and your flag, a love of the British way of life and having a pride in your Britishness. Someone who I think is portraying his Britishness in an exemplary manner at the moment is Amir Khan the boxer. He, I think, is a fine example to us all, let alone any dissafected British Muslim youth out there who do not think their religion compatable with a love and loyalty for their country and their flag.
I do not for a moment say that we should all have to think the same way and share the same values in life, but I don't think that my values are particularly bad ones, and I don't think they are pushed nearly enough these days in a country hand-tied by political correctness, which I believe is one of the reasons this country is suffering so many of the troubles it is today.
m
The only time I saw Bakri speak was here.
I haven't wanted so much to defend what Mr. Hamza has said, but to give him and the rest of them the opportunity to explain themselves.
I am very aware that they "say" a lot of things which are contraversial. The only thing I would say is that there is a difference between saying and doing.
I can't speak about Mr Bakri, but in Mr. Hamza's case the way he spoke and the way his friends and family have spoken to me about him after he was arrested put a doubt into my mind that he could be who john Ashcroft and David Blunkett said he was.
As you probably know, a lot of press over the last few years, whilst not liking him has also expressed this doubt.
As for "ex-racists" I wasn't accusing you at all. It was just evident on your forum when I first looked at it years ago, and whilst I appreciate it is beside the point to you,
for me it is very interesting as this is one very big way you are different to the National Front, and if a lot of people or even a few people have made a "journey out of racism" over a number of years and have organised into a group this is a very filmable thing if you understand what i mean.
Many people associate those who wave a british flag with racism. The very point I found a Policeman defending you about to a journalist in Trafalgar Sq. I was very suprised that a Policeman in uniform would actually do this, and I did not see it reported.
In a recent documentary one of Richard Reid's friends seemed to suggest he had made his own descision in Afghanistan.
A lot of experts on Al-Qaida seem to agree that they were only two of many training camps in Afghanistan. The ex-Finsbury park Muslims agree that many have trained in the use of IED's and guerilla tactics. they are known to the securiy services and in a lot of cases they know the people who keep an eye on them and appreciate why this is done.
I am not saying that Mr hamza is either good for this country or that I am a big fan of Al-Sharia law.
What I am saying is that I personally doubt that he is who John Ashcroft says he is, and also that whilst the debate took place on the pavement of Finsbury park for 16 months at least some debate was occuring.
I think if this debate was focussed on in the media, rather than the usual tabloidization, maybe Muslims would have felt less alienated and we would be a lot safer.
I have a lot of film (40 hours or so) of this debate which ilustrates my point. Personally I was glad when people like yourselves came down and wished that you had an opportunity to talk to the guys as I did rather than just shouting from behind Police lines.
For one example I filmed Mr hamza say:
"it is Immoral to target people who have no say in the war. In fact they were against the war in Iraq…If it was not for this Zionist media… the people of this country…would have informed themselves…so it is not fair to target them. It is not Islamic…We’ve got to distinguish between the evil politicians and the normal people who go about there business every day.”
yet where in the media have you seen this reported? It is not as if he said it only once either. He made this point almost every week.
The reason you are not seeing Abu Abdullah or any of his friends on TV is probably because of this. The new "jihadi celebrities" are those who justify the bombings.
Finnaly coming to your point about the British flag, I would very much like to film you guys talking about what it means to you.
I realsie that i focus my interest around filming and talking to those I disagree with, hence my filming in Finsbury park, my contact with you guys AND the regular republicans I have made friends with and frequently quarrel with here.
Personally my relationship with the flag comes from the Sex Pistols. Ever since 7/7 I have noticed a lot of republican bloggers posting British flags in solidarity with us.
I have been looking for the Sex Pistols one (the queen with the safety pin in her nose) and I was going to post it captioned
"There is no future and Englands DREAMING"
to vent my personal frustration.
I never used to hate the Queen so much. It all happened when I came back from 14 months in India and Pakistan. As soon as I changed up my last travellers cheques and saw that womans face again I thought
"Get that Bitches face off my money"
I was personally offended that all my dealings of survival in this society had such a persons face affixed to the front of them.
How do you feel about the Queen and her "class"?
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