...Speaking to a security conference in the German city of Munich, Mr Cameron said that the threat of terrorism must be confronted not only though intelligence and surveillance, but by taking on the ideology of Islamist extremism at home.
"Frankly, we need a lot less of the passive tolerance of recent years and much more active, muscular liberalism," the Prime Minister said.
While a "passively tolerant" society allowed its citizens to do what they like, so long as they do not break the law, a genuinely liberal country "believes in certain values and actively promotes them," Mr Cameron said.
"Freedom of speech. Freedom of worship. Democracy. The rule of law. Equal rights, regardless of race, sex or sexuality. It says to its citizens: This is what defines us as a society. To belong here is to believe these things.
"Each of us in our own countries must be unambiguous and hard-nosed about this defence of our liberty."
The Prime Minister stressed that right-wing extremists and Christian fundamentalist preachers of hate must also be condemned.
He also insisted that a clear distinction must be made between the religion of Islam and the political ideology of Islamist extremism...
..
Showing posts with label musilm. Show all posts
Showing posts with label musilm. Show all posts
February 05, 2011
October 08, 2009
One in four is Muslim
A report from an American think-tank has estimated 1.57 billion Muslims populate the world - with 60% in Asia.
The report, by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, took three years to compile, with census data from 232 countries and territories...
..
The report, by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, took three years to compile, with census data from 232 countries and territories...
..
April 06, 2009
Islamic Struggles in Scotland
via Andrew on pickledpolitics here
..."They've become so comfortable in their offices that they've ignored the social needs of their members, or are just so cut off that they don't even realise what's going on - street crime, gangs, burglaries, violence, drug abuse and dealing."
The old guard have been able to maintain the status quo by having sole control over who was selected to join the mosque management board, the young reformers' claim. On Thursday, talks between the two camps reached deadlock and two of the mosque's trustees, who normally remain neutral, backed reform. The president and secretary of the mosque will meet trustees next month to outline reforms.
Siddaqat Khan, 31, who negotiated for the reformers, said: "The older guys thought there was a threat to their kingdom. But society changes. The older generation are focused on being Pakistani, whereas we're focused on being British. That's where the clash happens. British society doesn't work by shutting itself off in a mosque."
According to Humza Yousaf, director of public affairs for the Scottish Islamic Foundation, breaking down the "gatekeeper mentality" of the older generation is essential for the long-term stability of the Muslim community.
..
..."They've become so comfortable in their offices that they've ignored the social needs of their members, or are just so cut off that they don't even realise what's going on - street crime, gangs, burglaries, violence, drug abuse and dealing."
The old guard have been able to maintain the status quo by having sole control over who was selected to join the mosque management board, the young reformers' claim. On Thursday, talks between the two camps reached deadlock and two of the mosque's trustees, who normally remain neutral, backed reform. The president and secretary of the mosque will meet trustees next month to outline reforms.
Siddaqat Khan, 31, who negotiated for the reformers, said: "The older guys thought there was a threat to their kingdom. But society changes. The older generation are focused on being Pakistani, whereas we're focused on being British. That's where the clash happens. British society doesn't work by shutting itself off in a mosque."
According to Humza Yousaf, director of public affairs for the Scottish Islamic Foundation, breaking down the "gatekeeper mentality" of the older generation is essential for the long-term stability of the Muslim community.
..
November 02, 2008
THE MAGICIANS OF THE PHARAOH
OK. Taking it from the top, Anjum Choudhary called me yesterday. He took me by surprise as I don't know him and I was recovering from a pretty good Halloween, but if he hadn't have called I might have been tempted to go to some huge multi rig squat party last night and I'd have missed his event today, or worse still turned up with no sleep in fancy dress on some mad mission so all is well that ends well as they say. I turned up without shoes in Finsbury one friday but luckily a friend pulled me away. I am off too much head battering at the moment. I am sure they would say Allah is decreeing all of this. What did I hear tonight which I didn't hear in two years on the street outside Finsbury? Some stuff about going to the toilet and a story about a bull. Oh and there is a new government policy directed at their main man, Mr Bakri. More of all that in a bit.
I turned up at 2pm stopping off at my favourite place on Brick lane to pick up a singara. There were a lot of people, male and female waiting outside for the place to open. I recognised a coupla people from Mr Waleeds talk the other day. I was looking for familiar faces from Finsbury as there are a few people I am worried about and I'd like to make sure are OK. Its been a long time.
Like in Finsbury I stood back, and stood out racially, culturally and fashionably, not that I was fashionable. Although dressing a bit smarter would probably help me in a lot of situations, and people often tell me to do so I find it a lot easier doing these things being myself from the start. It saves confusion. I don't see any point pretending to be all paly with people or thinking that anyone would view me with anything but suspicion knowing that I am a journalist -of sorts.
Once the seating had been arranged I sat down and read my book. I've borrowed Last Night a DJ Saved My Life from Paula so I read about the early history of hip hop whilst projectors were set up, microphone feed back got sorted etc. I've heard a lot of Muslims joke about how they always turn up late for things, this meeting scheduled for two finally got underway at three o'clock.
I'm not very good at numbers, there were maybe 300? Muslims of which maybe two or three were white faces and a couple of journalists who sood out almost as much as me. I introduced myself to Mr Choudary who sat on the stage in the middle. He started the event talking about Muslim prisoners and a desire to see the black flag of Islam over Downing street. He said that Richard Watson from Newsnight was there, and said that he and the BBC were working for the government and would probably hand their tapes to the Police afterwards. He was quite happy for them to do this, and wanted the Police to be sure of what was going on at his meetings. From first impressions he seems the calmest and most serious Muslim leader I have met so far. He introduced Abu Muaz, Head of the UK Salafi Youth Movement.
Mr Muaz straight away spoke about Muslims living without the Sharriah for 84 years. He said Muslims had forgotten the law and their obligations according to the Koran. He said they had fallen for the western concepts of "I think" and "I believe" and that this was a disease amongst Muslims today. He said that Muslims were calling for communism, socialism and secularism and that a lot of them didn't even know that Islam was itself a social and economic system.
He spoke of a blind Sheik locked up in 1996 who couldn't even speak English. He spoke about Aafia Siddiqui, who had been abducted from Pakistan, raped and tortured in Bagram air base and that a kidney of hers had been removed. He spoke of Abu Qatada, held without charge for years. Now he had been relesed he was tagged and under house arrest for 23 hours a day. He spoke about a Muslim in Leicester who had been pepper sprayed for parking on a double yellow line.
He said that he had to go around with a pocket full of belts to give to kids to stop their trousers falling down. He had spent some time at a big Islamic conference called GPU where 30 or 40 thousand Muslims had gathered. He detailed how he had challenged them. They agreed that a lot of what they were doing was haram but said it was all worth it to get so many Muslims in one place. He said they were confused. They thought they needed to read the Koran for forty years before they understood it and only intended to set about implementing it after that. They read books but they don't struggle. What would Mohammed do if he was alive today?
People practice Islam inside the mosque but outside they are secular. In Saudi Sheiks pass fatwahs which decree that the Saudi army are the mujahadeen, yet their job is to kill Muslims who want to live under Sharriah law. Sheiks in this country decree that it is OK for Muslims to join the army and the Police who suppress Islam. Mohammed said that if you join them, you are them.
He said that he had confronted one of the main organisers of the GPU conference. He had asked him whether Muslims should uphold the law of the Sharriah or the law of the Queen. The guy had said this was a "fikdi(?") question- one he was not qualified to answer. He spoke of a Saudi Sheik (Bin Baz I think) who had decreed that it was OK for 500 thousand US troops to be in Saudi, but in the next breath had said that it was wrong for someone to have a christian maid.
The West pushes freedom but doesn't allow people to defend the freedom of others. The west champions freedom of speech, yet Muslims are jailed for words whilst paedophiles go free. He accused the media of being the "Magicians of the Pharaoh" who would always portray Islam in a negative light, using terms like Terrorist, Fundamentalist and Extremist to describe those who wanted to live under the Shariah.
"What do you expect from a dog? Even if you put the skin of a lion on a dog it is still a dog."
He said that they always invited the media, but they always twist and spin what is said because they are a mouthpiece for the government. The government were now passing instructions to schools to spy on Muslim kids, The NASUWT had approved this and were now informing the Police if a kid drew a picture of a Christmas Cracker.
Mr Choudhary then spoke some more about the labelling of those who belived in Islam as "Exremists" "Radicals" and "Fundamentalists". He said that Newsnight had connected every terrorist plot in this country to Omar Bakri. He said they were blamed for everything for just being Muslims, but all these labels would mean nothing on the day of judgement. He encouraged people to smile in the face of those who would attack them. He spoke of a new government policy, introduced by Jaqui Smith to "Name and shame" extremists and said that the first person on the list was Omar Bakri.
We watched a video detailing the fate of Muslim prisoners in Guantanamo, particularly the youngest prisoner who you have probably seen on the news crying for his mother. His mother said Muslims could help by sending money and by turning up at his court case. The video was paused to introduce Omar Bakri live from Lebanon. This didn't quite work out over the net, so Mr Choudhary phoned him from the stage and put the phone to the microphone.
Mr Bakri spoke against man made law and repression disguised as socialism and caplitalism. He said that people should go back to the Koran and the Sunna which contained the only solutions. He said that Muslims shouldn't obey man made laws and that if anyone ordered them to they should tell them they are a Muslim "Loud and Proud". They should walk, talk, sleep and eat like Muslims. He said that "They" want to silence you and branded the new law of inctement "crazy". He reassured people that names weren't important. Only Mohammed was important. Whatever disbelievers said about them they shouldn't worry.
Mr Choudhary said that they should never stop calling for Shariah law, then he introduced Abu Yahya, Spokesman for the Followers of Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jama'aah who would give a talk about "Defending the Honour of the Muslims".
He was maybe the youngest person on the stage. Mr Yahya said someone had challenged a Muslim (In the Koran? I'm not sure) asking if Mohammed had decreed how to go to the toilet. The guy had countered that Mohammed had told them to wash with their left hand, some wierd shit I couldn't understand about stones (piles? clangnuts? fuck knows) and not to face "kiblah" when taking a dump. That probably shut the guy up. I think he said something about the fossilised remains of kaffirs having shit on their right hands. I'm not too sure.
He critisized Muslims for going to the UN. Mohammed had told them that if they went to the kaffirs with begging bowls in their hands "The fire would touch them". He also critisized Muslims for having selfish western attitudes which led them to look after themselves and their families and not worry about Muslims abroad. He told a parable to illustrate this.
If I have got this right, there were three black bulls and a white bull and a wolf who wanted to eat them. Whilst they stuck together they could see off the wolf. The wolf came to the back bulls and told them that if they stood without the white one at night he couldn't see them. The white bull gave them away. He said that this was the US policy toward Pakistan. The black bulls had a discussion like a lot of western Muslims did about Hamza and Bakri. They were a problem. They ditched the white bull.
The next night the wolf attacked the lone white bull who cried "Where are my brothers?". He equated this with the situation in Palestine. Over the next nights he took his chances with the black bulls and picked them off one by one. Mr Yahya equated this with Afghanistan and Iraq. He said that as the last bull died he realised that he had actually died the day he let his white brother down.
Muslims everywhere say "What has Bakri, Hamza and Quatada got to do with me?". Mohammed told them to stand with the Muslim whether he is an oppressor or oppressed. He spoke of the disease of nationalism amongst Pakistanis and Arabs. No one could call themselves a true Muslim unless they wanted for their brother what they wanted for themselves. Taking Shahada (becoming a Muslim) was totally a political thing. It couldn't be seperated from politics like some Muslims say. Musilms would be tested. He berated Muslims for doing nothing about 17 sisters in British jails.
He spoke of an 18 year old Muslim girl who had been taken from a camel train in a raid and presented as a gift to the King of Grenada who raped her. Some Islamic ruler upon hearing this swore that he wouldn't sleep with his wife whilst this girl remained a prisoner and conquered the whole shit, town by town until he rescued her.
He said that talk of the Taliban not educating women was propaganda. He said that the prophet had told them to take half their deen from his wife Aysha. The Taliban had only closed schools when there was a civil war. People laughed when they said Islams black flag would one day be over Downing street. People laughed at the prophet when he said they would one day conquer Persia too.
Mr Choudhary closed this first half of the meeting by stating his belief that a Covenant of Security existed for them in this country as their life and wealth was protected by our laws, but that they should never stop exposing man made law, and never stop calling for the Shariah which was inevitable. Just before the break Mr Choudhary said that all kaffirs were liars. Even if they spoke truth sometimes they were just kaffir liars who spoke the truth.
I couldn't stay for the second half. I left thinking that if everyone at Finsbury thought this lot were in league with MI-5 they were probably wrong. Its certainly an interesting theory which is no doubt popular with conspiracy heads. Maybe I will get round to asking them, to see what they say. Muslims in the press used to say that Hamza was giving Islam such a bad name that he was probably working for MI-5 himself. I also left wondering what I could do with these guys on film which hasn't already been covered. Maybe I could report what they say without "twisting or spinning" or becoming a "Magician of the Pharaoh". Maybe I could be a "Kaffir liar who spoke the truth." Some ambition eh.
Report what people say?
What- Journalism? Here? ha ha ha ho ho. Seriously?
Naaah.
Boring.
No one would be interested in that.
Islam4UKs own video footage of the event is here
Richard Watson presented some of his work on "The Rise of the British Jihad" and chaired a discussion at the Frontline club a few days ago which you can find online here.
UPDATE:
Islamic radicals make mockery of hate laws in The Evening Standard
Why Hasn’t Anjum Choudhry Been Arrested from Harry's Place
..
I turned up at 2pm stopping off at my favourite place on Brick lane to pick up a singara. There were a lot of people, male and female waiting outside for the place to open. I recognised a coupla people from Mr Waleeds talk the other day. I was looking for familiar faces from Finsbury as there are a few people I am worried about and I'd like to make sure are OK. Its been a long time.
Like in Finsbury I stood back, and stood out racially, culturally and fashionably, not that I was fashionable. Although dressing a bit smarter would probably help me in a lot of situations, and people often tell me to do so I find it a lot easier doing these things being myself from the start. It saves confusion. I don't see any point pretending to be all paly with people or thinking that anyone would view me with anything but suspicion knowing that I am a journalist -of sorts.
Once the seating had been arranged I sat down and read my book. I've borrowed Last Night a DJ Saved My Life from Paula so I read about the early history of hip hop whilst projectors were set up, microphone feed back got sorted etc. I've heard a lot of Muslims joke about how they always turn up late for things, this meeting scheduled for two finally got underway at three o'clock.
I'm not very good at numbers, there were maybe 300? Muslims of which maybe two or three were white faces and a couple of journalists who sood out almost as much as me. I introduced myself to Mr Choudary who sat on the stage in the middle. He started the event talking about Muslim prisoners and a desire to see the black flag of Islam over Downing street. He said that Richard Watson from Newsnight was there, and said that he and the BBC were working for the government and would probably hand their tapes to the Police afterwards. He was quite happy for them to do this, and wanted the Police to be sure of what was going on at his meetings. From first impressions he seems the calmest and most serious Muslim leader I have met so far. He introduced Abu Muaz, Head of the UK Salafi Youth Movement.
Mr Muaz straight away spoke about Muslims living without the Sharriah for 84 years. He said Muslims had forgotten the law and their obligations according to the Koran. He said they had fallen for the western concepts of "I think" and "I believe" and that this was a disease amongst Muslims today. He said that Muslims were calling for communism, socialism and secularism and that a lot of them didn't even know that Islam was itself a social and economic system.
He spoke of a blind Sheik locked up in 1996 who couldn't even speak English. He spoke about Aafia Siddiqui, who had been abducted from Pakistan, raped and tortured in Bagram air base and that a kidney of hers had been removed. He spoke of Abu Qatada, held without charge for years. Now he had been relesed he was tagged and under house arrest for 23 hours a day. He spoke about a Muslim in Leicester who had been pepper sprayed for parking on a double yellow line.
He said that he had to go around with a pocket full of belts to give to kids to stop their trousers falling down. He had spent some time at a big Islamic conference called GPU where 30 or 40 thousand Muslims had gathered. He detailed how he had challenged them. They agreed that a lot of what they were doing was haram but said it was all worth it to get so many Muslims in one place. He said they were confused. They thought they needed to read the Koran for forty years before they understood it and only intended to set about implementing it after that. They read books but they don't struggle. What would Mohammed do if he was alive today?
People practice Islam inside the mosque but outside they are secular. In Saudi Sheiks pass fatwahs which decree that the Saudi army are the mujahadeen, yet their job is to kill Muslims who want to live under Sharriah law. Sheiks in this country decree that it is OK for Muslims to join the army and the Police who suppress Islam. Mohammed said that if you join them, you are them.
He said that he had confronted one of the main organisers of the GPU conference. He had asked him whether Muslims should uphold the law of the Sharriah or the law of the Queen. The guy had said this was a "fikdi(?") question- one he was not qualified to answer. He spoke of a Saudi Sheik (Bin Baz I think) who had decreed that it was OK for 500 thousand US troops to be in Saudi, but in the next breath had said that it was wrong for someone to have a christian maid.
The West pushes freedom but doesn't allow people to defend the freedom of others. The west champions freedom of speech, yet Muslims are jailed for words whilst paedophiles go free. He accused the media of being the "Magicians of the Pharaoh" who would always portray Islam in a negative light, using terms like Terrorist, Fundamentalist and Extremist to describe those who wanted to live under the Shariah.
"What do you expect from a dog? Even if you put the skin of a lion on a dog it is still a dog."
He said that they always invited the media, but they always twist and spin what is said because they are a mouthpiece for the government. The government were now passing instructions to schools to spy on Muslim kids, The NASUWT had approved this and were now informing the Police if a kid drew a picture of a Christmas Cracker.
Mr Choudhary then spoke some more about the labelling of those who belived in Islam as "Exremists" "Radicals" and "Fundamentalists". He said that Newsnight had connected every terrorist plot in this country to Omar Bakri. He said they were blamed for everything for just being Muslims, but all these labels would mean nothing on the day of judgement. He encouraged people to smile in the face of those who would attack them. He spoke of a new government policy, introduced by Jaqui Smith to "Name and shame" extremists and said that the first person on the list was Omar Bakri.
We watched a video detailing the fate of Muslim prisoners in Guantanamo, particularly the youngest prisoner who you have probably seen on the news crying for his mother. His mother said Muslims could help by sending money and by turning up at his court case. The video was paused to introduce Omar Bakri live from Lebanon. This didn't quite work out over the net, so Mr Choudhary phoned him from the stage and put the phone to the microphone.
Mr Bakri spoke against man made law and repression disguised as socialism and caplitalism. He said that people should go back to the Koran and the Sunna which contained the only solutions. He said that Muslims shouldn't obey man made laws and that if anyone ordered them to they should tell them they are a Muslim "Loud and Proud". They should walk, talk, sleep and eat like Muslims. He said that "They" want to silence you and branded the new law of inctement "crazy". He reassured people that names weren't important. Only Mohammed was important. Whatever disbelievers said about them they shouldn't worry.
Mr Choudhary said that they should never stop calling for Shariah law, then he introduced Abu Yahya, Spokesman for the Followers of Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jama'aah who would give a talk about "Defending the Honour of the Muslims".
He was maybe the youngest person on the stage. Mr Yahya said someone had challenged a Muslim (In the Koran? I'm not sure) asking if Mohammed had decreed how to go to the toilet. The guy had countered that Mohammed had told them to wash with their left hand, some wierd shit I couldn't understand about stones (piles? clangnuts? fuck knows) and not to face "kiblah" when taking a dump. That probably shut the guy up. I think he said something about the fossilised remains of kaffirs having shit on their right hands. I'm not too sure.
He critisized Muslims for going to the UN. Mohammed had told them that if they went to the kaffirs with begging bowls in their hands "The fire would touch them". He also critisized Muslims for having selfish western attitudes which led them to look after themselves and their families and not worry about Muslims abroad. He told a parable to illustrate this.
If I have got this right, there were three black bulls and a white bull and a wolf who wanted to eat them. Whilst they stuck together they could see off the wolf. The wolf came to the back bulls and told them that if they stood without the white one at night he couldn't see them. The white bull gave them away. He said that this was the US policy toward Pakistan. The black bulls had a discussion like a lot of western Muslims did about Hamza and Bakri. They were a problem. They ditched the white bull.
The next night the wolf attacked the lone white bull who cried "Where are my brothers?". He equated this with the situation in Palestine. Over the next nights he took his chances with the black bulls and picked them off one by one. Mr Yahya equated this with Afghanistan and Iraq. He said that as the last bull died he realised that he had actually died the day he let his white brother down.
Muslims everywhere say "What has Bakri, Hamza and Quatada got to do with me?". Mohammed told them to stand with the Muslim whether he is an oppressor or oppressed. He spoke of the disease of nationalism amongst Pakistanis and Arabs. No one could call themselves a true Muslim unless they wanted for their brother what they wanted for themselves. Taking Shahada (becoming a Muslim) was totally a political thing. It couldn't be seperated from politics like some Muslims say. Musilms would be tested. He berated Muslims for doing nothing about 17 sisters in British jails.
He spoke of an 18 year old Muslim girl who had been taken from a camel train in a raid and presented as a gift to the King of Grenada who raped her. Some Islamic ruler upon hearing this swore that he wouldn't sleep with his wife whilst this girl remained a prisoner and conquered the whole shit, town by town until he rescued her.
He said that talk of the Taliban not educating women was propaganda. He said that the prophet had told them to take half their deen from his wife Aysha. The Taliban had only closed schools when there was a civil war. People laughed when they said Islams black flag would one day be over Downing street. People laughed at the prophet when he said they would one day conquer Persia too.
Mr Choudhary closed this first half of the meeting by stating his belief that a Covenant of Security existed for them in this country as their life and wealth was protected by our laws, but that they should never stop exposing man made law, and never stop calling for the Shariah which was inevitable. Just before the break Mr Choudhary said that all kaffirs were liars. Even if they spoke truth sometimes they were just kaffir liars who spoke the truth.
I couldn't stay for the second half. I left thinking that if everyone at Finsbury thought this lot were in league with MI-5 they were probably wrong. Its certainly an interesting theory which is no doubt popular with conspiracy heads. Maybe I will get round to asking them, to see what they say. Muslims in the press used to say that Hamza was giving Islam such a bad name that he was probably working for MI-5 himself. I also left wondering what I could do with these guys on film which hasn't already been covered. Maybe I could report what they say without "twisting or spinning" or becoming a "Magician of the Pharaoh". Maybe I could be a "Kaffir liar who spoke the truth." Some ambition eh.
Report what people say?
What- Journalism? Here? ha ha ha ho ho. Seriously?
Naaah.
Boring.
No one would be interested in that.
Islam4UKs own video footage of the event is here
Richard Watson presented some of his work on "The Rise of the British Jihad" and chaired a discussion at the Frontline club a few days ago which you can find online here.
UPDATE:
Islamic radicals make mockery of hate laws in The Evening Standard
Why Hasn’t Anjum Choudhry Been Arrested from Harry's Place
..
October 15, 2008
ABU WALEED
I'm an old mate of Atilla so don't worry I won't kill u!
I've been following the tabloid sensations of Abu Waleed over the last coupla weeks. As I said I never met him and questioned the tabloids associating him with Finsbury park. He emailed last night and phoned this morning. We had a long chat about a lot of things Hamza, Atilla, Quilliam Foundation, MI-5, Al Mujaharoun, Bakri, Abdullah Al Faisal, Al Qaida etc. I wrote four or five pages of notes.
We covered stuff from the 1990s right up to the present. Most interestingly for me, he filled me in on the tension between Al Muj and Finsbury park I used to hear about when I was up there and the difference in media style and focus between Hamza and Bakri over the years. He speaks quite fast and I don't do shorthand but I think I got everything. After the roller coaster of knowing Atilla I haven't been jumping to delve back into the story of Fundamental Islam in the UK but talking to Abu Waleed, like talking to Atilla I can't help but be intrigued by the particularly modern British nature of someone talking about such an age old religion.
I am a bit tied up at the mo but I will translate my notes over the next coupla days.
I've been following the tabloid sensations of Abu Waleed over the last coupla weeks. As I said I never met him and questioned the tabloids associating him with Finsbury park. He emailed last night and phoned this morning. We had a long chat about a lot of things Hamza, Atilla, Quilliam Foundation, MI-5, Al Mujaharoun, Bakri, Abdullah Al Faisal, Al Qaida etc. I wrote four or five pages of notes.
We covered stuff from the 1990s right up to the present. Most interestingly for me, he filled me in on the tension between Al Muj and Finsbury park I used to hear about when I was up there and the difference in media style and focus between Hamza and Bakri over the years. He speaks quite fast and I don't do shorthand but I think I got everything. After the roller coaster of knowing Atilla I haven't been jumping to delve back into the story of Fundamental Islam in the UK but talking to Abu Waleed, like talking to Atilla I can't help but be intrigued by the particularly modern British nature of someone talking about such an age old religion.
I am a bit tied up at the mo but I will translate my notes over the next coupla days.
July 05, 2008
BORN, BREAD AND BUTTERED IN ENGLAND
Abu Bosher and Abu Saif had always thought they had a healthy relationship with the police, until their Stoke-on-Trent homes were raided on Tuesday...
...Mr Bosher added: "We disagree with the Government's foreign policy, and we will debate with people on that, but they are free to disagree with us. We don't want to force our views down anyone's throat.
"The police come to our stalls regularly and take away our leaflets. I'm sure every police officer in Stoke-on-Trent has one.
"Some of them know us by our first names, so we don't know why they've done this. We feel betrayed."...
also do check Peter Obornes article- Suspicion of the Muslim community has found its way into mainstream society – and nobody seems to care.
June 11, 2008
AHHH JIHADIS ETC
Can't blog or compute much as I have a bit of repetitive strain in my arm and have a gig on Saturday and must rest it.
Islamic fanatics are openly using the internet to recruit children in Britain, says Civitas
This article mentions Islambase who feature some of my videos.
Muslim children in Britain 'brought up to hate their homeland'
Muslim parents to blame for children turning to extremism
Islamic fanatics are openly using the internet to recruit children in Britain, says Civitas
This article mentions Islambase who feature some of my videos.
Muslim children in Britain 'brought up to hate their homeland'
Muslim parents to blame for children turning to extremism
June 02, 2008
TALK. WHY NOT?
Norman Kember:
"I always think we are in danger of demonising Islam and I think we have to have a more open discussion about these things. The government obviously doesn't."
Mr Kember also wanted people to try to speak with Qatada more to "understand what his position is and why he takes it".
With all this in mind I popped round to Hajj's place at the weekend. I was a bit nervous because I knew there would be a gathering of his Muslim brothers there. I was also curious if I would recognise anyone from Finsbury park or if anyone would recognise me. My friends advised me to wear some smarter clothes but I always thought it better to be accepted for who I am which has never been a problem with Hajj. Things get too bloody complicated otherwise eh. Arriving at Hajj's front gate there were maybe 15 guys of various ages and races. Hajj was in the middle and spotting me saying
"No. Sorry. We don't allow any fundamentalists in here thank you!"
Kemal and another Jamaican brother called Ismael pounced on me with the Muslim hard sell..
"You can have a go" said Hajj "But I'm telling you now you'll be wasting your breath. Two years he heard Abu Hamza preach. Are we any better than him?"
Ismael meeting a fresh non-Muslim guest was undeterred.
"Seriously, help yourself." I said. "Say whatever you like. I understand that you want me to be a Muslim and I will answer as honestly as I can."
We proceeded to have the usual conversation I go through with Hajj's guests about why they believe there is a God, and why I am not sure if there is one or not. They all think that the world around us is proof that there is a God. It might be. How do I know? How do I know which one? Another friendly Cypriot guy joined in. He turned out to be a life coach. He had a great story about a house visit from MI-5. The usual. Someone who didn't like him had called them saying he was Al-Quaida. He ended up with the MI-5 guys number.
"Call me if there is any problems.."
I suppose turning up on my own to these sort of things where everyone is fervently discussing their "deen" must look like I want to become a Muslim. I explained my reasons for my first approaches to Finsbury park mosque and why I have carried on visiting Hajj.
I discussed Quilliam with them. Not surprisingly they were dead against the idea, accusing them of trying to invent a new Islam. I agreed that it looked to me that the Quilliam guys had got needlessly embroiled in arguments about theology but invited them to ponder whether the reasons the guys had started it up were pure ie- peace between "them" and "us". I said that I was worried that so many would look at them and condemn them without a conversation which might make their lives more difficult in future. I said I hoped that if they were unhappy with Quilliam they should still look for alternative channels to forge links with non-Muslims for all of our saftey and greater trust. I wanted to film with this in mind.
I think everyone believed I was genuine. I don't remember feeling uncomfortable once, let alone any hostility or suspicion. None of this surprises me, Hajj is the sort of person who if he accepts you his friends do too. Whenever they got together in the front yard to pray I nipped outside the gate for a cigarette. Kemal was all "Why didn't you bring your camera round?" which is a very good sign for future film work. We discussed Hamza. Again I found that those who knew him best were the nicest, and the most filmable of people. i explained that this made me want to pull my hair out, and my lack of success in convincing the family to film with me.
As people came and went we moved on to subjects we could relate about and I am very hopeful. Turns out Ismael used to play in a band in Jamaica. Hajj's garden is a very comfortable place to be on a summer night. I told a few of the guys about my website. Hajj said he had been on the phone to Atilla in Belmarsh and said he was OK.
"I always think we are in danger of demonising Islam and I think we have to have a more open discussion about these things. The government obviously doesn't."
Mr Kember also wanted people to try to speak with Qatada more to "understand what his position is and why he takes it".
With all this in mind I popped round to Hajj's place at the weekend. I was a bit nervous because I knew there would be a gathering of his Muslim brothers there. I was also curious if I would recognise anyone from Finsbury park or if anyone would recognise me. My friends advised me to wear some smarter clothes but I always thought it better to be accepted for who I am which has never been a problem with Hajj. Things get too bloody complicated otherwise eh. Arriving at Hajj's front gate there were maybe 15 guys of various ages and races. Hajj was in the middle and spotting me saying
"No. Sorry. We don't allow any fundamentalists in here thank you!"
Kemal and another Jamaican brother called Ismael pounced on me with the Muslim hard sell..
"You can have a go" said Hajj "But I'm telling you now you'll be wasting your breath. Two years he heard Abu Hamza preach. Are we any better than him?"
Ismael meeting a fresh non-Muslim guest was undeterred.
"Seriously, help yourself." I said. "Say whatever you like. I understand that you want me to be a Muslim and I will answer as honestly as I can."
We proceeded to have the usual conversation I go through with Hajj's guests about why they believe there is a God, and why I am not sure if there is one or not. They all think that the world around us is proof that there is a God. It might be. How do I know? How do I know which one? Another friendly Cypriot guy joined in. He turned out to be a life coach. He had a great story about a house visit from MI-5. The usual. Someone who didn't like him had called them saying he was Al-Quaida. He ended up with the MI-5 guys number.
"Call me if there is any problems.."
I suppose turning up on my own to these sort of things where everyone is fervently discussing their "deen" must look like I want to become a Muslim. I explained my reasons for my first approaches to Finsbury park mosque and why I have carried on visiting Hajj.
I discussed Quilliam with them. Not surprisingly they were dead against the idea, accusing them of trying to invent a new Islam. I agreed that it looked to me that the Quilliam guys had got needlessly embroiled in arguments about theology but invited them to ponder whether the reasons the guys had started it up were pure ie- peace between "them" and "us". I said that I was worried that so many would look at them and condemn them without a conversation which might make their lives more difficult in future. I said I hoped that if they were unhappy with Quilliam they should still look for alternative channels to forge links with non-Muslims for all of our saftey and greater trust. I wanted to film with this in mind.
I think everyone believed I was genuine. I don't remember feeling uncomfortable once, let alone any hostility or suspicion. None of this surprises me, Hajj is the sort of person who if he accepts you his friends do too. Whenever they got together in the front yard to pray I nipped outside the gate for a cigarette. Kemal was all "Why didn't you bring your camera round?" which is a very good sign for future film work. We discussed Hamza. Again I found that those who knew him best were the nicest, and the most filmable of people. i explained that this made me want to pull my hair out, and my lack of success in convincing the family to film with me.
As people came and went we moved on to subjects we could relate about and I am very hopeful. Turns out Ismael used to play in a band in Jamaica. Hajj's garden is a very comfortable place to be on a summer night. I told a few of the guys about my website. Hajj said he had been on the phone to Atilla in Belmarsh and said he was OK.
April 24, 2008
April 14, 2008
February 25, 2007
THE KORAN
Screen name Muflis1 has sent me a link to this video where an Imam preaches against what he believes is Abu Hamza's interpretation of the Koran. Do Compare to what I filmed Hamza say below, and go and read everything else online too.
February 09, 2006
Heres a cheerful soul
Europe is pregnant with Islam and will give a birth to an Islamic nation
originaly published here
Since September 11, the word Islam has become familiar words around the world. Some Muslims see this phenomenon as an open door for spreading Islam globally. Some even interpret this tragedy as fortuitous because they say Allah will bring good news out of bad news. Others argue that in the future Islam and the message of the Qur’an would have prevailed in any case. Also, some Muslims go further to provide what they perceive as clear proof that this victory will occur...
Because Islam
holds that everything happens for a reason, some Islamists interpret the World Trade Center attack as a means of spreading Islam. In this view the event advanced the early twentieth century prophecy of the Bediuzzamans [holy man]...
In 1908, Saidi Kurdi foretold that Europe would become an Islamic nation. He wrote that his followers should take with pleasure the advantages of Europe - like technology and industry - that would assist them in their progress toward their goal and in the development of their civilization. However, he admonished them that they should forbid the sins and evils of Western civilization from entering the boundaries of their freedom and their culture...
Believing that the most effective tool to defeat the enemy is to shoot the enemy with his own weapon, Muslims see the enemy’s weapon as democracy, rule of law, and particularly freedom of expression. Technology and higher education are also to be appropriated to use against infidels. In their home countries, most Islamists cannot exercise freedom of expression, but in the West they seize the benefits of democracy to spread Islam. Ironically, the airplane hijackers lived in the United States under the rule of law as ordinary members of the community until they executed their plan to crash the planes into the buildings and kill so many occupants. By this strategy of assessing the most advantageous tools of the Western world, Islamic organizations with a mission to revive an international Islamic state take hold of every means of achieving their goal, especially the benefits of the enemy’s society. Academic freedom, freedom of assembly, sophisticated technology, as well as values of tolerance, equal access, and freedom of speech have permitted Islam to become the most rapidly growing religion in both the United States and Europe.
At the turn of the twentieth century, Saidi Kurdi recognized that through their own technology Europeans could be conquered. His early writings predict this conquest.
also a comment from the Belmont Club here
"They said they didn't want to kill me."
Exactly, Skeletal Dave! Muslims have a POLICY called "taqiyyah" which involves consciously and deliberately dissembling and lying to the enemy, to non-Muslims, therefore to YOU.
You can argue that THOSE PEOPLE, THERE may not have been actively seeking your death, or else you'd be dead, but that doesn't eliminate such a desire for your death in the macro-picture.
I can't really argue that one. If I call Abdullah and ask him if "Taqiyyah" means he can lie to me, and he says no, he could still be lying to me.
originaly published here
Since September 11, the word Islam has become familiar words around the world. Some Muslims see this phenomenon as an open door for spreading Islam globally. Some even interpret this tragedy as fortuitous because they say Allah will bring good news out of bad news. Others argue that in the future Islam and the message of the Qur’an would have prevailed in any case. Also, some Muslims go further to provide what they perceive as clear proof that this victory will occur...
Because Islam
holds that everything happens for a reason, some Islamists interpret the World Trade Center attack as a means of spreading Islam. In this view the event advanced the early twentieth century prophecy of the Bediuzzamans [holy man]...
In 1908, Saidi Kurdi foretold that Europe would become an Islamic nation. He wrote that his followers should take with pleasure the advantages of Europe - like technology and industry - that would assist them in their progress toward their goal and in the development of their civilization. However, he admonished them that they should forbid the sins and evils of Western civilization from entering the boundaries of their freedom and their culture...
Believing that the most effective tool to defeat the enemy is to shoot the enemy with his own weapon, Muslims see the enemy’s weapon as democracy, rule of law, and particularly freedom of expression. Technology and higher education are also to be appropriated to use against infidels. In their home countries, most Islamists cannot exercise freedom of expression, but in the West they seize the benefits of democracy to spread Islam. Ironically, the airplane hijackers lived in the United States under the rule of law as ordinary members of the community until they executed their plan to crash the planes into the buildings and kill so many occupants. By this strategy of assessing the most advantageous tools of the Western world, Islamic organizations with a mission to revive an international Islamic state take hold of every means of achieving their goal, especially the benefits of the enemy’s society. Academic freedom, freedom of assembly, sophisticated technology, as well as values of tolerance, equal access, and freedom of speech have permitted Islam to become the most rapidly growing religion in both the United States and Europe.
At the turn of the twentieth century, Saidi Kurdi recognized that through their own technology Europeans could be conquered. His early writings predict this conquest.
also a comment from the Belmont Club here
"They said they didn't want to kill me."
Exactly, Skeletal Dave! Muslims have a POLICY called "taqiyyah" which involves consciously and deliberately dissembling and lying to the enemy, to non-Muslims, therefore to YOU.
You can argue that THOSE PEOPLE, THERE may not have been actively seeking your death, or else you'd be dead, but that doesn't eliminate such a desire for your death in the macro-picture.
I can't really argue that one. If I call Abdullah and ask him if "Taqiyyah" means he can lie to me, and he says no, he could still be lying to me.
January 19, 2005
May 14, 2004
PITCHING AND BITCHING
When I first started filming in Finsbury Park, I had no serious intention of approaching TV companies with my story. I was just having fun. I suspected the media to be totally controlled. As I found out for myself that it didn't seem to be, the idea of approaching production companies became more serious. The most encouragement I got from the scene was from a newspaper journalist, who I sometimes caged ciggies off of, and who gave me a contact for documentary making. I asked him why he never asked Hamza questions one time, to be told that he was
“ Out of favour with the Muslim brothers. “
He was such a nice guy I thought about asking them to reconsider. I finally got round to asking him who he wrote for.
“ The Sun and The Express “ he told me.
With that statement the whole ludicrous nature of what I had become involved with seemed to spin full circle. One of the original reasons I had come down was because of The Suns coverage of this mosque, and the journalist I had received the most encouragement from wrote for them. Even though I had been at times flippant, I believed I had the other side of what the right wing press, and the London TV News had deemed to be one of the most important stories in the UK.
I joined a filmmakers website called shootingpeople and began answering production company calls for new documentary makers. My film about the kids protest had been well received by those who were in it, but totally mulched by a couple of serious film maker friends, some of whom actually seemed to be telling me off for making such a low quality film. Although I suspected this was out of frustration with their own lack of success I still became loath to show what I had to strangers.
I met was a guy who actually helped run the shooting people web site. He was great, we shared an interest in meditation and he lent me a book by a Canadian guy who worked on monster movies called Hardcore Zen. He wished me all the best. I think he would have loved to produce something involving a few peoples footage, and had his eyes on making the British Bowling for Columbine.
A couple of months later I answered a call from a Swedish production company working in the U.K. They thought the stuff I had amusing, but I rambled nonsensical stuff about how I wanted to make it really off the wall, and how I wanted to be painted red head to toe if I was going to present it. I watched some of the stuff they had made. Although it was socially conscious, it was a bit A B C in presentation, and they seemed a bit straight for what I was after, with no idea of Hamza's status in British society. They all looked down as I shook their hands when I left and I didn't hear from them again.
A company called Idealworld had put a call out. I phoned them, but stuttered so much I thought I had completely fucked my chances. After phoning back a couple of times to find them in meetings, I gave up, feeling sorry for myself. I wondered why I had dedicated so much time to all this.
I thought of what I would like to have in my documentary if money was no object. I wanted to include an interview with David Icke, and possibly a phone conversation with the guy who runs infowars where the allegation of George Bush worshiping an Owl God was actually made. I wanted to blue screen an image of George Bush on his lawn in front of his helicopter with me running into frame and falling over, hounding him with questions about his alleged owl god worship and child sacrifice.
In my Internet research I had come up with the name Yvonne Ridley. She was a journalist who had been captured in Afghanistan by the Taliban. She had been set free, without harm, speaking of having been well treated by her captors. She had later actually converted to Islam. I read in some of her writing that she had met Abu Hamza. They had both been guests at a student debating society. I thought what she would have to say might bridge the gap of understanding between Islam and the west.
I went to a small demo marking one year since the invasion of Iraq. I saw George Galloway but although I had my camera I still didn't ask him about his indefatigable comments. As I went round filming I bumped into a friend I had made who makes a living animating in 3D. He was standing next to Naz, a rapper from the band Fundamental who looks like a younger version of Bin Laden. He had grown up a Muslim in the north of England, had lapsed into western society and was now reclaiming his Muslim faith. I had earlier put him in my film about the kids and he was really complimentary about it. We were joined by an older woman who he introduced as Yvonne. She had a sharp sense of humour and the two of them obviously knew each other well and had a banter going.
" You know who this is? " said Naz.
" Yvonne Ridley! She was taken prisoner by the Taliban!"
" You don't know how long I have been wanting to talk to you. " I told her about my filming in Finsbury Park and switched my camera on hoping she would have something to say.
I had previously spoken to Naz about my frustrations getting Muslims to talk on camera about Fundamental Islam or Abu Hamza. I instantly had the same trouble with Yvonne, as she didn't like to be in front of a camera either.
I filmed Naz saying something like "The Taliban had to let her go because she was too much of an extremist for them."
She said that according to her religion, it was wrong to criticize fellow Muslims. I told her of my dislike for the seemingly power crazed lunatics who ran the stop the war movement and how I had no problem criticizing them. It was decided that we would go for a coffee, but I lost them all trying to film the stage through the spray of Trafalgar Squares fountains. I later heard from my friend that she had said of me
"I don't want to talk to that stone worshiper.“
Fair enough I suppose. I thought she would have something more useful to say than that though. It was interesting that only 3 of the Muslims I had met in Finsbury Park judged me by the way I looked, and yet a recent convert like Yvonne would be on my case so soon.
After about a month I got another call from Idealworld. The researcher who had originally contacted me left a message saying that a new documentary producer was on the scene, and they were eager to see what I had. The night before I was really nervous. A years work on the line, to be judged by the people who made Location, Location, Location seemed to be even more ludicrous than Finsbury Park. The meeting was good. They had got back to me because they had been reading the right wing press and realised how big a story I was on to. After a year standing in the cold with Islamists it was great to be sitting in front of a producer who was in a position to make this into a documentary who really wanted to do it.
We spoke of the politics surrounding the situation. With the predicted expansion of Muslim communities in Europe I wondered whether someone with Hamza’s views might one day be standing for mayor of Dusseldorf or something. They liked my approach, and wanted to see the human side of Mr Abdullah. I was relieved that they preferred to make a film about him rather than Hamza. They were totally up for it, but had to get a commission from Channel 4, and I have to get the agreement of Mr. Abdullah.
“ Out of favour with the Muslim brothers. “
He was such a nice guy I thought about asking them to reconsider. I finally got round to asking him who he wrote for.
“ The Sun and The Express “ he told me.
With that statement the whole ludicrous nature of what I had become involved with seemed to spin full circle. One of the original reasons I had come down was because of The Suns coverage of this mosque, and the journalist I had received the most encouragement from wrote for them. Even though I had been at times flippant, I believed I had the other side of what the right wing press, and the London TV News had deemed to be one of the most important stories in the UK.
I joined a filmmakers website called shootingpeople and began answering production company calls for new documentary makers. My film about the kids protest had been well received by those who were in it, but totally mulched by a couple of serious film maker friends, some of whom actually seemed to be telling me off for making such a low quality film. Although I suspected this was out of frustration with their own lack of success I still became loath to show what I had to strangers.
I met was a guy who actually helped run the shooting people web site. He was great, we shared an interest in meditation and he lent me a book by a Canadian guy who worked on monster movies called Hardcore Zen. He wished me all the best. I think he would have loved to produce something involving a few peoples footage, and had his eyes on making the British Bowling for Columbine.
A couple of months later I answered a call from a Swedish production company working in the U.K. They thought the stuff I had amusing, but I rambled nonsensical stuff about how I wanted to make it really off the wall, and how I wanted to be painted red head to toe if I was going to present it. I watched some of the stuff they had made. Although it was socially conscious, it was a bit A B C in presentation, and they seemed a bit straight for what I was after, with no idea of Hamza's status in British society. They all looked down as I shook their hands when I left and I didn't hear from them again.
A company called Idealworld had put a call out. I phoned them, but stuttered so much I thought I had completely fucked my chances. After phoning back a couple of times to find them in meetings, I gave up, feeling sorry for myself. I wondered why I had dedicated so much time to all this.
I thought of what I would like to have in my documentary if money was no object. I wanted to include an interview with David Icke, and possibly a phone conversation with the guy who runs infowars where the allegation of George Bush worshiping an Owl God was actually made. I wanted to blue screen an image of George Bush on his lawn in front of his helicopter with me running into frame and falling over, hounding him with questions about his alleged owl god worship and child sacrifice.
In my Internet research I had come up with the name Yvonne Ridley. She was a journalist who had been captured in Afghanistan by the Taliban. She had been set free, without harm, speaking of having been well treated by her captors. She had later actually converted to Islam. I read in some of her writing that she had met Abu Hamza. They had both been guests at a student debating society. I thought what she would have to say might bridge the gap of understanding between Islam and the west.
I went to a small demo marking one year since the invasion of Iraq. I saw George Galloway but although I had my camera I still didn't ask him about his indefatigable comments. As I went round filming I bumped into a friend I had made who makes a living animating in 3D. He was standing next to Naz, a rapper from the band Fundamental who looks like a younger version of Bin Laden. He had grown up a Muslim in the north of England, had lapsed into western society and was now reclaiming his Muslim faith. I had earlier put him in my film about the kids and he was really complimentary about it. We were joined by an older woman who he introduced as Yvonne. She had a sharp sense of humour and the two of them obviously knew each other well and had a banter going.
" You know who this is? " said Naz.
" Yvonne Ridley! She was taken prisoner by the Taliban!"
" You don't know how long I have been wanting to talk to you. " I told her about my filming in Finsbury Park and switched my camera on hoping she would have something to say.
I had previously spoken to Naz about my frustrations getting Muslims to talk on camera about Fundamental Islam or Abu Hamza. I instantly had the same trouble with Yvonne, as she didn't like to be in front of a camera either.
I filmed Naz saying something like "The Taliban had to let her go because she was too much of an extremist for them."
She said that according to her religion, it was wrong to criticize fellow Muslims. I told her of my dislike for the seemingly power crazed lunatics who ran the stop the war movement and how I had no problem criticizing them. It was decided that we would go for a coffee, but I lost them all trying to film the stage through the spray of Trafalgar Squares fountains. I later heard from my friend that she had said of me
"I don't want to talk to that stone worshiper.“
Fair enough I suppose. I thought she would have something more useful to say than that though. It was interesting that only 3 of the Muslims I had met in Finsbury Park judged me by the way I looked, and yet a recent convert like Yvonne would be on my case so soon.
After about a month I got another call from Idealworld. The researcher who had originally contacted me left a message saying that a new documentary producer was on the scene, and they were eager to see what I had. The night before I was really nervous. A years work on the line, to be judged by the people who made Location, Location, Location seemed to be even more ludicrous than Finsbury Park. The meeting was good. They had got back to me because they had been reading the right wing press and realised how big a story I was on to. After a year standing in the cold with Islamists it was great to be sitting in front of a producer who was in a position to make this into a documentary who really wanted to do it.
We spoke of the politics surrounding the situation. With the predicted expansion of Muslim communities in Europe I wondered whether someone with Hamza’s views might one day be standing for mayor of Dusseldorf or something. They liked my approach, and wanted to see the human side of Mr Abdullah. I was relieved that they preferred to make a film about him rather than Hamza. They were totally up for it, but had to get a commission from Channel 4, and I have to get the agreement of Mr. Abdullah.
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