I thought I would come out of blog retirement to encourage Tommy. I don't know why I like extremists, they are just fascinating. I think its because I used to be a bit of a christian extremist growing up. Knocking on peoples doors telling them about Jesus was scary but there is something about moving with conviction which I have missed, so when I see it in others, especially when it is a controversial direction in the face of the norms of the mainstream alseep culture it interests me.
I never had a look at the EDL, my attempts to engage with the United British Alliance who came down to protest Hamza years before the EDL existed are here. My film with the National front in Bermondsey is here.
I have always been interested in Tommy because of the way he comes across. I fucking hate all these middle class journos who twist what he says much more than I could ever hate Tommy. Now they are asking if he has changed his racist ways when it was they who continually reported him as racist which he continually denied. It still goes on with Paxman saying "If the EDL aren't a racist organisation what are they?" They think they are being clever, it just looks pathetic and at worst a fucking denigration of free speech.
Its pretty much the same as how they refused to broadcast Abu Hamza's continual exhortations against terrorism in the UK. I don't see why intelligent journalists do this. Its like reducing real life to their own soap opera. I think if someone is expousing extreme views it is crucial in a world of free speech to report exactly what those fucking views are. Its actually not difficult either. What gives these egomaniac journos the fucking nerve to add their own layer of grease?
Anyway, I have always disagreed with Tommy about the nature of the threat this country faces but I
think Tommy is as genuine now as he has always been. I don't know. Its just little things like when he asked Jon Snow if he was happy he had left the EDL. Also I know personally from the four or five times I have been in solitary doing Vipassna, its just really good for you.
It is just stupid to expect Tommy to have completely changed his views. He is on a learning curve and having not grown up in a working class community I have no right to comment on where that learning curve might take him but Quilliam seem like a safe set of hands to accompany him in this case.
He has been able to
articulate a lot of white working class resentment which middle class
politicians and journos of all persuasions ignore. It exists whether we like it or not, I always thought that the fact these types had moved on from basic racism to "against Islamic extremism" was a good thing. I wonder now if the people he
can relate to have some faith in him he can be of use talking to them
where others cant. Whether we might go on some sort of journey together through this doco. I hope so, it is what the very best TV docos are all about.
When
I heard the way he spoke about what Quilliam were
doing, he sounded genuine and also made me think yeah, hang on- what are they doing? I look forward to the coming doco. Yeah all the Fundamentalist Muslims I
filmed laugh at Quilliam. I don't doubt that dislike of them is one of the only things which unites the Islamic community. I
have no idea but I think Majid reaching out to Tommy is the best thing
he has done and it touched me to hear how he described how it happened, relating to his own experiences with Amnesty international going out on a limb for him while he was in a much nastier jail that Tommy has been in.
Yeah people can jaw about how he is being "careerist" and that the EDL were a lost cause anyway blah blah blah. I
have seen how peoples egos get over inflated by publicity, it happened
to Atilla. It even happened to me when we became news for a short while
when squatting, but I don't think it necessarily follows that people who
become spokespersons for extreme views are capable of such cynical
manouverings a lot of people are accusing Tommy of. Anyway, all the best Tommy.
from David.
Tommy and Maajid debating around the Breivik incident
BBC piece
Tommy on Newsnight
South London Anti fascists say bollocks
as does someone in the Guardian
Mehdi Hasan in the Spectator
and someone on Liberal Conspiracy
Liberty GB say
"people must face the possibility that some Muslims are sincere in their moderation. If they don't, then they may well come across as bigots"
Do you take Tommy Seriously? The most interesting hour of radio I have heard in a long while on Three Counties Radio
Tommys old Tw@
Tommys "new era" tw@
Maajid Nawaz's Tw@
sorry for the tw@ joke I just can't get the hang of twitter but looking at both these twitter feeds it is easy to see the important work both these guys are already involved with.
Showing posts with label Quilliam Foundation. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Quilliam Foundation. Show all posts
October 10, 2013
December 29, 2010
QUILLIAM SHRINKING
Demos blog
...reducing government funding makes some sense in respect of the review of the Prevent strand of counter-terrorism. With less money to go around, Prevent needs to be more focused on public safety – working primarily to target individuals who have adopted al-Qaeda ideology but have not acted on it. The Quilliam Foundation finds it difficult to access these people, and even more difficult when receiving government money...
UPDATE: new comment freshly laid by a curious "MUSA"
Im soooooo glad the quilliam foundation are almost finished. They was no good n the begining and no good at the end. InshaAllah nooooooooooooo one funds them.
could that be Musa Ahmet rejecting them for a second time? 3 part video of us discussing the launch of Quilliam here. And a press TV report from the launch. They since phoned Musa to see if he could be of any use but he decided against joining up with them. As I have said before, I have no opinion. There always seemed to be confusion about the point of Quilliam. Certainly nothing we saw at the launch seemed geared towards those at risk of turning to extremism. What is a "think tank" in terms of anti-extremism?
(update: Musa's comment is now missing for some reason)
Harry's Place has a perspective:
...In many important ways, Quilliam has won the battle. There is now a broader understanding of the work of Islamist political parties active in the United Kingdom...
There is? What for? And how much did that cost again?
More think tanking or thinking tank from Quilliam- How to Respond to Al-Qaeda ?
...In 2003, the Metropolitan Police evicted Abu Hamza and his followers from the mosque, installing individuals from the Muslim Association of Britain, an Islamist group with links to the Muslim Brotherhood, in their place...
err... oh forget it.
..
...reducing government funding makes some sense in respect of the review of the Prevent strand of counter-terrorism. With less money to go around, Prevent needs to be more focused on public safety – working primarily to target individuals who have adopted al-Qaeda ideology but have not acted on it. The Quilliam Foundation finds it difficult to access these people, and even more difficult when receiving government money...
UPDATE: new comment freshly laid by a curious "MUSA"
Im soooooo glad the quilliam foundation are almost finished. They was no good n the begining and no good at the end. InshaAllah nooooooooooooo one funds them.
could that be Musa Ahmet rejecting them for a second time? 3 part video of us discussing the launch of Quilliam here. And a press TV report from the launch. They since phoned Musa to see if he could be of any use but he decided against joining up with them. As I have said before, I have no opinion. There always seemed to be confusion about the point of Quilliam. Certainly nothing we saw at the launch seemed geared towards those at risk of turning to extremism. What is a "think tank" in terms of anti-extremism?
(update: Musa's comment is now missing for some reason)
Harry's Place has a perspective:
...In many important ways, Quilliam has won the battle. There is now a broader understanding of the work of Islamist political parties active in the United Kingdom...
There is? What for? And how much did that cost again?
More think tanking or thinking tank from Quilliam- How to Respond to Al-Qaeda ?
...In 2003, the Metropolitan Police evicted Abu Hamza and his followers from the mosque, installing individuals from the Muslim Association of Britain, an Islamist group with links to the Muslim Brotherhood, in their place...
err... oh forget it.
..
November 18, 2009
MUSA ON TV
He said a lot more than this, and spoke mainly to say that in his opinion, The Quilliam Foundation don't know what they are talking about. I noticed he said
"I have done my time and got out"
when he should have said
"I was held for nine months and found not guilty"!
There has been a bit of press recently about the taps in Hamza's cell and Hamza preaching through the plug hole. Musa reckons this is just prison guards making money out of outlandish stories and he thinks that the drains from the prison within a prison where Hamza is held go in the other direction anyway.
Some of the press goes into much more detail about Fatwahs from Abu Qatada appearing in the Arabic press. One article even elaborates on some sort of code developed by Qatada, Hamza and Abu Doha. I remember a recording of Hamza smuggled out of jail one time reported in the papers. I cant find it online but it sounded genuine. I don't remember that it encouraged terrorism, unless it did so in code of course.
The Prison Service insisted: “There is no proof this recording was made by Hamza and no evidence it was made in prison.”
One report says
...The Ministry of Justice said it had not seen Quilliam's report. The ministry said it was unfortunate Quilliam had not interviewed prison staff as part of its research...
I think Musa, like a lot of Muslims thinks that Quilliam are just trying to justify their budget.
He said the said that the CNN interview was a few minutes out of half an hour, but he wasn't that unhappy with how it came out. I can see that he is on a mission to ready the world for a rehabilitated Atilla, which I think is a good thing. I am not sure that the authorities are ready for the idea at all. I am pretty sure he wont be able to do any media which pretty much fucks up my filming ideas but that is not necessarily a bad thing. He probably could do with being plugged back into family life rather than the oxygen of any more publicity. I am not sure how much more I can say, but I am hoping Musa will drop round and do some more Malung TV soon.
..
October 19, 2009
Moderates and Extremists
Ed Husain of the Quilliam Foundation argues that the government's Preventing Violent Extremism (PVE) strategy, also known as Prevent, should target Muslims he describes as Islamists whether or not they are suspected of terrorism or violent extremism because, he says, they are extremists and "provide the mood music" for the 7/7 bombers and others who threaten the British public with violence.
Although there is no credible evidence to support this view it is one that Husain shares with influential thinktanks including Policy Exchange and the Centre for Social Cohesion in the UK and Daniel Pipes' Middle East Forum in the US. On this account, regular Cif bloggers Inayat Bunglawala and Anas Altikriti are described as "extremists" and "subversives" who should be targeted and stigmatised in the same way as terrorists inspired or directed by al-Qaida.
Charles Moore and Dean Godson of Policy Exchange, have explained that this is a re-make of a 1980s Thatcherite counter-subversion strategy in which Husain is cast in the role of Frank Chapple the "moderate" trade union leader who was, they suggest, used to discredit and undermine the "extremist" miner's trade union leader Arthur Scargill. Husain, they argue, can help defeat Altikriti, Bungalwala and their colleagues in the same way...
..
Although there is no credible evidence to support this view it is one that Husain shares with influential thinktanks including Policy Exchange and the Centre for Social Cohesion in the UK and Daniel Pipes' Middle East Forum in the US. On this account, regular Cif bloggers Inayat Bunglawala and Anas Altikriti are described as "extremists" and "subversives" who should be targeted and stigmatised in the same way as terrorists inspired or directed by al-Qaida.
Charles Moore and Dean Godson of Policy Exchange, have explained that this is a re-make of a 1980s Thatcherite counter-subversion strategy in which Husain is cast in the role of Frank Chapple the "moderate" trade union leader who was, they suggest, used to discredit and undermine the "extremist" miner's trade union leader Arthur Scargill. Husain, they argue, can help defeat Altikriti, Bungalwala and their colleagues in the same way...
..
March 29, 2009
ISLAM 4 QUAKERS
The Islam4UK meeting reported in some papers as cancelled, was moved from The Hilton hotel round the corner to the Quaker meeting house. The Quakers are quite well known for letting anyone hire a room. I was once told by a Quaker part of what sounded like a huge untold story about the importance of their meeting house in Belfast during "The Troubles".
As usual we were accomodated to film really politely without fuss. As usual also when I seem to film these things interesting things happen after the batteries run out.
A few speakers, most of whom I have seen before outlined the conditions for Muslims who spoke out being tortured around the world and languishing in British jails. They also told us Islam was going to take over, whether we liked it or not. Mr Choudhary is convinced that Muslims who stick out in the media are the ones who are going in the right direction. He reasons that the Koran isn't written about Muslims who kept quiet.
He finnished his talk putting straight the recent stories about him in the media, which we unfortunately missed filming. His relationships with journalists as they cast him on the border of acceptable free speech is one of the main things that interests me. Afterwards a happy looking Somali stood up to question, stating that he was proud to be British. He didn't have very good English and started telling more of a story than asking a question, but it was obvious he was a Muslim trying to challenge the platforms concept of Islam.
Afterwards he came over to me and took my phone number with an idea of using my tapes, and further explained his disatisfaction with how Islam was being presented by these people. I didn't really say anything as it isn't my religion and my problems would probably extend as much to his version of Islam as these guys. People often ask to use my tapes for this or that, I have had people approach me- people from the National Front, the BBC, various Islamic film makers all of whom I have had to turn down. It would be useless for me to spend such a long time gaining peoples confidence just to give my footage to a stranger to say what they like with.
I try and film what is. They certainly preach controversial things, yet they also preach clearly against terrorism, usually toward the end every time I have been to these meetings. Islam is coming. It is going to dominate whether we like it or not. Maybe it will come through violence. We don't know but the flag of Islam will fly over Downing street. This is a sort of Islamic revival meeting.
Afterwards journalists of all description ask futher questions, everyone conducts themselves in a calm manner and food is served. There was a very minimal Police presence outside at the beginning and when I left. They were obviously aware of what was going on but didn't want to be seen to be taking too much of an interest.
The day after I got a call from the Somali guy, claiming he had been spoken to in a bit of a hostile manner by some of the gathered Muslims, telling him not to come back.
This is unsurprising in environments which split the sexes, I saw this sort of thing in Finsbury but nevertheless I do find it dissapointing in that if Mr Choudhary makes a point of saying how The Quilliam Foundation had turned down his challenge to a debate in this country of free speech, I would hope he would welcome challenges to his own position within his meeting and allow those challengers to move unmolested.
I'd like to see how much control he has over his people, if he encourages this sort of thing or if he can nip it in the bud. It is this sort of thing which has the media and the Police comparing these controversial Muslim groups to paler groups of the far right. As I have said, everyone treats me OK. Lets see what happens. There were sobber looking real journalists there in the room so if they didn't go around screaming I am fucked if I am going to.
They talk about wanting to dominate but I can't imagine anyone in the room walking out dead set to dominate England tomorow. As far as a threat I feel much more threatened out on a typical saturday night often by people I would call my personal friends so work that one out. On our planet we have these people called news editors who cherry pick words from a distance and are paid to present these words to millions of people. I have some more film which will be up on my Youtube site soon as.
..
As usual we were accomodated to film really politely without fuss. As usual also when I seem to film these things interesting things happen after the batteries run out.
A few speakers, most of whom I have seen before outlined the conditions for Muslims who spoke out being tortured around the world and languishing in British jails. They also told us Islam was going to take over, whether we liked it or not. Mr Choudhary is convinced that Muslims who stick out in the media are the ones who are going in the right direction. He reasons that the Koran isn't written about Muslims who kept quiet.
He finnished his talk putting straight the recent stories about him in the media, which we unfortunately missed filming. His relationships with journalists as they cast him on the border of acceptable free speech is one of the main things that interests me. Afterwards a happy looking Somali stood up to question, stating that he was proud to be British. He didn't have very good English and started telling more of a story than asking a question, but it was obvious he was a Muslim trying to challenge the platforms concept of Islam.
Afterwards he came over to me and took my phone number with an idea of using my tapes, and further explained his disatisfaction with how Islam was being presented by these people. I didn't really say anything as it isn't my religion and my problems would probably extend as much to his version of Islam as these guys. People often ask to use my tapes for this or that, I have had people approach me- people from the National Front, the BBC, various Islamic film makers all of whom I have had to turn down. It would be useless for me to spend such a long time gaining peoples confidence just to give my footage to a stranger to say what they like with.
I try and film what is. They certainly preach controversial things, yet they also preach clearly against terrorism, usually toward the end every time I have been to these meetings. Islam is coming. It is going to dominate whether we like it or not. Maybe it will come through violence. We don't know but the flag of Islam will fly over Downing street. This is a sort of Islamic revival meeting.
Afterwards journalists of all description ask futher questions, everyone conducts themselves in a calm manner and food is served. There was a very minimal Police presence outside at the beginning and when I left. They were obviously aware of what was going on but didn't want to be seen to be taking too much of an interest.
The day after I got a call from the Somali guy, claiming he had been spoken to in a bit of a hostile manner by some of the gathered Muslims, telling him not to come back.
This is unsurprising in environments which split the sexes, I saw this sort of thing in Finsbury but nevertheless I do find it dissapointing in that if Mr Choudhary makes a point of saying how The Quilliam Foundation had turned down his challenge to a debate in this country of free speech, I would hope he would welcome challenges to his own position within his meeting and allow those challengers to move unmolested.
I'd like to see how much control he has over his people, if he encourages this sort of thing or if he can nip it in the bud. It is this sort of thing which has the media and the Police comparing these controversial Muslim groups to paler groups of the far right. As I have said, everyone treats me OK. Lets see what happens. There were sobber looking real journalists there in the room so if they didn't go around screaming I am fucked if I am going to.
They talk about wanting to dominate but I can't imagine anyone in the room walking out dead set to dominate England tomorow. As far as a threat I feel much more threatened out on a typical saturday night often by people I would call my personal friends so work that one out. On our planet we have these people called news editors who cherry pick words from a distance and are paid to present these words to millions of people. I have some more film which will be up on my Youtube site soon as.
..
December 02, 2008
ED HUSSAIN
From The Telegraph..
...A fortnight ago, a terrorism-supporting group gathered with 300 supporters in council property in Britain's most densely Muslim-populated area, Tower Hamlets, and called for rejection of British law and support for convicted terrorists in prison. They beamed in from Lebanon the banned cleric Omar Bakri, who called on young Muslims to disobey the law.
Afterwards, a blame game broke out between the police, the Home Office and the local authority as to how this banned group gathered without being noticed. ( Did it? I never knew. They met again on Sunday in Southall but it was a bit far for me..) If we are unable to stop such events, or even disrupt the phone line from Beirut to London, then not much faith can be placed in our law enforcement agencies' surveillance of extremists...
..
...A fortnight ago, a terrorism-supporting group gathered with 300 supporters in council property in Britain's most densely Muslim-populated area, Tower Hamlets, and called for rejection of British law and support for convicted terrorists in prison. They beamed in from Lebanon the banned cleric Omar Bakri, who called on young Muslims to disobey the law.
Afterwards, a blame game broke out between the police, the Home Office and the local authority as to how this banned group gathered without being noticed. ( Did it? I never knew. They met again on Sunday in Southall but it was a bit far for me..) If we are unable to stop such events, or even disrupt the phone line from Beirut to London, then not much faith can be placed in our law enforcement agencies' surveillance of extremists...
..
October 15, 2008
ABU WALEED
I'm an old mate of Atilla so don't worry I won't kill u!
I've been following the tabloid sensations of Abu Waleed over the last coupla weeks. As I said I never met him and questioned the tabloids associating him with Finsbury park. He emailed last night and phoned this morning. We had a long chat about a lot of things Hamza, Atilla, Quilliam Foundation, MI-5, Al Mujaharoun, Bakri, Abdullah Al Faisal, Al Qaida etc. I wrote four or five pages of notes.
We covered stuff from the 1990s right up to the present. Most interestingly for me, he filled me in on the tension between Al Muj and Finsbury park I used to hear about when I was up there and the difference in media style and focus between Hamza and Bakri over the years. He speaks quite fast and I don't do shorthand but I think I got everything. After the roller coaster of knowing Atilla I haven't been jumping to delve back into the story of Fundamental Islam in the UK but talking to Abu Waleed, like talking to Atilla I can't help but be intrigued by the particularly modern British nature of someone talking about such an age old religion.
I am a bit tied up at the mo but I will translate my notes over the next coupla days.
I've been following the tabloid sensations of Abu Waleed over the last coupla weeks. As I said I never met him and questioned the tabloids associating him with Finsbury park. He emailed last night and phoned this morning. We had a long chat about a lot of things Hamza, Atilla, Quilliam Foundation, MI-5, Al Mujaharoun, Bakri, Abdullah Al Faisal, Al Qaida etc. I wrote four or five pages of notes.
We covered stuff from the 1990s right up to the present. Most interestingly for me, he filled me in on the tension between Al Muj and Finsbury park I used to hear about when I was up there and the difference in media style and focus between Hamza and Bakri over the years. He speaks quite fast and I don't do shorthand but I think I got everything. After the roller coaster of knowing Atilla I haven't been jumping to delve back into the story of Fundamental Islam in the UK but talking to Abu Waleed, like talking to Atilla I can't help but be intrigued by the particularly modern British nature of someone talking about such an age old religion.
I am a bit tied up at the mo but I will translate my notes over the next coupla days.
June 02, 2008
TALK. WHY NOT?
Norman Kember:
"I always think we are in danger of demonising Islam and I think we have to have a more open discussion about these things. The government obviously doesn't."
Mr Kember also wanted people to try to speak with Qatada more to "understand what his position is and why he takes it".
With all this in mind I popped round to Hajj's place at the weekend. I was a bit nervous because I knew there would be a gathering of his Muslim brothers there. I was also curious if I would recognise anyone from Finsbury park or if anyone would recognise me. My friends advised me to wear some smarter clothes but I always thought it better to be accepted for who I am which has never been a problem with Hajj. Things get too bloody complicated otherwise eh. Arriving at Hajj's front gate there were maybe 15 guys of various ages and races. Hajj was in the middle and spotting me saying
"No. Sorry. We don't allow any fundamentalists in here thank you!"
Kemal and another Jamaican brother called Ismael pounced on me with the Muslim hard sell..
"You can have a go" said Hajj "But I'm telling you now you'll be wasting your breath. Two years he heard Abu Hamza preach. Are we any better than him?"
Ismael meeting a fresh non-Muslim guest was undeterred.
"Seriously, help yourself." I said. "Say whatever you like. I understand that you want me to be a Muslim and I will answer as honestly as I can."
We proceeded to have the usual conversation I go through with Hajj's guests about why they believe there is a God, and why I am not sure if there is one or not. They all think that the world around us is proof that there is a God. It might be. How do I know? How do I know which one? Another friendly Cypriot guy joined in. He turned out to be a life coach. He had a great story about a house visit from MI-5. The usual. Someone who didn't like him had called them saying he was Al-Quaida. He ended up with the MI-5 guys number.
"Call me if there is any problems.."
I suppose turning up on my own to these sort of things where everyone is fervently discussing their "deen" must look like I want to become a Muslim. I explained my reasons for my first approaches to Finsbury park mosque and why I have carried on visiting Hajj.
I discussed Quilliam with them. Not surprisingly they were dead against the idea, accusing them of trying to invent a new Islam. I agreed that it looked to me that the Quilliam guys had got needlessly embroiled in arguments about theology but invited them to ponder whether the reasons the guys had started it up were pure ie- peace between "them" and "us". I said that I was worried that so many would look at them and condemn them without a conversation which might make their lives more difficult in future. I said I hoped that if they were unhappy with Quilliam they should still look for alternative channels to forge links with non-Muslims for all of our saftey and greater trust. I wanted to film with this in mind.
I think everyone believed I was genuine. I don't remember feeling uncomfortable once, let alone any hostility or suspicion. None of this surprises me, Hajj is the sort of person who if he accepts you his friends do too. Whenever they got together in the front yard to pray I nipped outside the gate for a cigarette. Kemal was all "Why didn't you bring your camera round?" which is a very good sign for future film work. We discussed Hamza. Again I found that those who knew him best were the nicest, and the most filmable of people. i explained that this made me want to pull my hair out, and my lack of success in convincing the family to film with me.
As people came and went we moved on to subjects we could relate about and I am very hopeful. Turns out Ismael used to play in a band in Jamaica. Hajj's garden is a very comfortable place to be on a summer night. I told a few of the guys about my website. Hajj said he had been on the phone to Atilla in Belmarsh and said he was OK.
"I always think we are in danger of demonising Islam and I think we have to have a more open discussion about these things. The government obviously doesn't."
Mr Kember also wanted people to try to speak with Qatada more to "understand what his position is and why he takes it".
With all this in mind I popped round to Hajj's place at the weekend. I was a bit nervous because I knew there would be a gathering of his Muslim brothers there. I was also curious if I would recognise anyone from Finsbury park or if anyone would recognise me. My friends advised me to wear some smarter clothes but I always thought it better to be accepted for who I am which has never been a problem with Hajj. Things get too bloody complicated otherwise eh. Arriving at Hajj's front gate there were maybe 15 guys of various ages and races. Hajj was in the middle and spotting me saying
"No. Sorry. We don't allow any fundamentalists in here thank you!"
Kemal and another Jamaican brother called Ismael pounced on me with the Muslim hard sell..
"You can have a go" said Hajj "But I'm telling you now you'll be wasting your breath. Two years he heard Abu Hamza preach. Are we any better than him?"
Ismael meeting a fresh non-Muslim guest was undeterred.
"Seriously, help yourself." I said. "Say whatever you like. I understand that you want me to be a Muslim and I will answer as honestly as I can."
We proceeded to have the usual conversation I go through with Hajj's guests about why they believe there is a God, and why I am not sure if there is one or not. They all think that the world around us is proof that there is a God. It might be. How do I know? How do I know which one? Another friendly Cypriot guy joined in. He turned out to be a life coach. He had a great story about a house visit from MI-5. The usual. Someone who didn't like him had called them saying he was Al-Quaida. He ended up with the MI-5 guys number.
"Call me if there is any problems.."
I suppose turning up on my own to these sort of things where everyone is fervently discussing their "deen" must look like I want to become a Muslim. I explained my reasons for my first approaches to Finsbury park mosque and why I have carried on visiting Hajj.
I discussed Quilliam with them. Not surprisingly they were dead against the idea, accusing them of trying to invent a new Islam. I agreed that it looked to me that the Quilliam guys had got needlessly embroiled in arguments about theology but invited them to ponder whether the reasons the guys had started it up were pure ie- peace between "them" and "us". I said that I was worried that so many would look at them and condemn them without a conversation which might make their lives more difficult in future. I said I hoped that if they were unhappy with Quilliam they should still look for alternative channels to forge links with non-Muslims for all of our saftey and greater trust. I wanted to film with this in mind.
I think everyone believed I was genuine. I don't remember feeling uncomfortable once, let alone any hostility or suspicion. None of this surprises me, Hajj is the sort of person who if he accepts you his friends do too. Whenever they got together in the front yard to pray I nipped outside the gate for a cigarette. Kemal was all "Why didn't you bring your camera round?" which is a very good sign for future film work. We discussed Hamza. Again I found that those who knew him best were the nicest, and the most filmable of people. i explained that this made me want to pull my hair out, and my lack of success in convincing the family to film with me.
As people came and went we moved on to subjects we could relate about and I am very hopeful. Turns out Ismael used to play in a band in Jamaica. Hajj's garden is a very comfortable place to be on a summer night. I told a few of the guys about my website. Hajj said he had been on the phone to Atilla in Belmarsh and said he was OK.
May 12, 2008
MORE QUILLIAM
Quilliam videos
From the Quilliam Policy Document Pulling Together to Defeat Terror:
The BBC, ITN, Sky, CNN and British print press have a duty to assist
mainstream Muslims in our fight against extremists. By giving our
detractors airtime, you undermine our cause and strengthen/legitimise a
minority discourse. Editors, producers, researchers, and guest invitation
assistants can help by
▪ Extending the unwritten no air-time rule for the far-right, to Islamist
extremists;
▪ Avoiding groups that claim to represent all Muslims, since British
Muslims are too diverse to be represented by any one group;
▪ Ending the media game of ‘good Muslim’ and ‘bad Muslim’ to produce
exciting television;
▪ Stop hunting for ‘critics of Islam’ to bash Muslims (an episode of BBC
Newsnight during the Archbishop of Canterbury’s comments on Shariah
law was particularly worrying);
▪ Liberal newspapers’ editors should think twice before allowing column
space to Hamas and its supporters while they remain commited to the
destruction of Israel;
▪ Denying genuine Islamophobes, or Muslim haters, an unchallenged
voice in column spaces or interview slots because they, like Islamists,
have a particular warmongering mindset that undermines social
cohesion.
There is a lot more about "deradicalisation centres", buddy schemes which put people in contact with ex- Jihadi's, combatting Wahabism etc.
From the Quilliam Policy Document Pulling Together to Defeat Terror:
The BBC, ITN, Sky, CNN and British print press have a duty to assist
mainstream Muslims in our fight against extremists. By giving our
detractors airtime, you undermine our cause and strengthen/legitimise a
minority discourse. Editors, producers, researchers, and guest invitation
assistants can help by
▪ Extending the unwritten no air-time rule for the far-right, to Islamist
extremists;
▪ Avoiding groups that claim to represent all Muslims, since British
Muslims are too diverse to be represented by any one group;
▪ Ending the media game of ‘good Muslim’ and ‘bad Muslim’ to produce
exciting television;
▪ Stop hunting for ‘critics of Islam’ to bash Muslims (an episode of BBC
Newsnight during the Archbishop of Canterbury’s comments on Shariah
law was particularly worrying);
▪ Liberal newspapers’ editors should think twice before allowing column
space to Hamas and its supporters while they remain commited to the
destruction of Israel;
▪ Denying genuine Islamophobes, or Muslim haters, an unchallenged
voice in column spaces or interview slots because they, like Islamists,
have a particular warmongering mindset that undermines social
cohesion.
There is a lot more about "deradicalisation centres", buddy schemes which put people in contact with ex- Jihadi's, combatting Wahabism etc.
April 27, 2008
Thoughts on Quilliam
Its like Newsnight but with flowery chairs and no Paxman butting in- Daniel Sandford, Home Affairs Editor BBC
Musa and I had a chat about the Quilliam Foundation particularly in relation to his brother Atilla. I've embeded it as a youtube playlist which should work in three parts. ( do contact me if it doesn't or click on my youtube page.)
We also have shown up in the background of a Reuters news piece obviously enjoying ourselves. I haven't seen anything else yet. I saw CNN interview Rachel, but did it make the news? I have joined in the debate hosted by Sunny here on Pickled Poltics. Do pitch in.
also do read Brendan O'Neil's take on the trial of Izadeen: The imprisonment of Abu Izzadeen for the ‘criminal offence’ of Talking Bollocks In A Mosque represents a grave assault on free speech.
UPDATE: Bit disappointed really. I suppose judging a public figure is an easy habit to get into. I think whether these guys are serious about trying to stop terror is more important than judging whether they are good Muslims or not, although in fairness they also seem hot on judging other Muslim's too. I can't really join in this one being a kaffir, I'll just wish everyone all the best. I thought it was funny when someone was worried about me being "accused of being a closet sympathiser". This video shows me sympathising with Musa although not in a closet. I think the whole notion of a "British Islam" really amusing as Hamid and Atilla are the most British Islamists you could ever meet.
UPDATE: Thanks to Andrew in the comments below- Not only did CNN do a piece, but a very well put together one at that. Well done CNN. This actually encapsulates the stakes all these arguing parties should be focusing on. The reporter, Paula Newton. Now that rings a bell. Could it be this Paula Newton?
April 26, 2008
MORE QUILLIAM
I'll keep what I wrote below as an amusing first impression. I've since read quite a bit online about this, and Maajid Mawaz's In and Out of Islamism which was presented to attendees of the Quilliam event as a book but is the transcript of a session recorded on Youtube. Part 1 is below. It appears that both he and Ed Hussain are Muslim's who once rejected "the system" who now think something can be gained by engaging with it. I can't really fault that. I'm not sure what Musa has read I am heading down to his place to film. I think I wrote a lot of rubbish below. What I would keep would be the idea of taking Quilliam into Belmarsh. I'm sure this would be fraught with peril, loads could go wrong eh, but I reckon its the way forward.
April 25, 2008
QUILLIAM FOUNDATION LAUNCH
Beautiful warm day the other day. Stepped out in my suit heading out to meet Musa at London Bridge, and on to meet Rachel at the Quilliam Foundation event in The British Museum. I got togged up in a suit mainly to make Musa laugh but also I must confess to feel a little less out of place at what looked like it was going to be a very posh event.
"How do I look?" I asked a girl down my street on the way out.
"To be honest the facial jewellery looks more frightening in contrast to the suit than it would to your normal clothes..."
With that ringing endorsement I was on my way.
I met up with Musa as planned to find he had been warned about the Quilliam Foundation by Muslims he knew and that he had been seriously considering giving it a miss. I told him for totally different reasons I was uncomfortable at these sort of things, and was glad that he had decided to come. Musa agreed it would be good to find out for himself what Quilliam was all about as he had been invited and we sort of decided we would keep shtum and just watch.
Rachel was waiting for us outside the Museum, relaxed in bright sunshine. Inside there was a large group of people waiting on the left of the main hall and it became apparent that we had just walked in with one of the stars of the show. I was hoping some of the Muslim's I have met over the years might be there but I didn't recognise anyone. It was really hard to read the crowd. Quite a lot of media columnists, a lot of sombre looking professional Muslim journalists and a very small number of women in Muslim dress. I was glad I was wearing my suit.
Standing in the middle of the crowd were Daniel Sandford from the BBC and Angus Walker from ITN both of whom we had met in Belmarsh courts and at the BBC. Angus straight away launched into how he had been haranguing his newsroom in very sarcastic terms to do a positive story about Islam for once. He stated that on all his stories he deemed it important to talk about terrorists as criminals and not attach them to the word "Muslim".
I like Angus, he always makes me feel comfortable. Rachel told me after that they are great pals and call each other for a gossip all the time. Trouble is, when someone makes me feel comfortable it all comes out.
"Tell me seriously David. Do you really think ITN is worse than the BBC News?"
"Seriously? It looks like it is made by coke heads."
He checked that that was what I was saying.
"I mean, the BBC looks only marginally better. It looks brash and full of itself and they talk in a really puffed up excitable manner about extremism, it all just looks like it has cocaine involved in it. The whole of television looks laced with cocaine to me, I mean at the other end the children's presenters are actually caught with the stuff and die from association with it..."
I told him about how important I thought it was for America's to see A Life in Hashistan, as I thought Chris Turner, a normal American guy with a thirty year knowledge of the Pashtun people had the ability to explain Afghanistan to the US no one else had at this critical time. I rambled on about dogfighting, people going after mountain lions armed only with a strong felt coat and traveling Malungs filling up pipes with huge rocks of dope. A few people round us were laughing but afterwards I was mortified that it looked like I had come up to these people screaming "DRUGS!!!!DRUGS!!!!" in their faces.
Musa and I went on to talk about our “Atilla Ahmet football manager” campaign and about his eight seasons undefeated coaching a schoolboy team. He told us to get on to the Football Foundation who worked in prisons. (I haven't contacted them yet, I've heard back from Arsenal who aren't able to help...) We all agreed that Football was a language a lot of British street style Muslims would respond to.
It took a long time to get downstairs, Musa had a bit of trouble which was quickly sorted when a girl came up saying it was she who had sent the email inviting him. While Rachel was being interviewed by CNN and everyone else a few journalists spoke to Musa and got his contact details and we filmed this:
When we eventually got into the lecture theatre we ended up sitting right in the middle. It all looked really slick and expensive and it was very hot under the lights. After the introduction came some five minute speeches from invited guests including Rachel and Jemima Khan. Musa looked really stern holding his hands firmly on the arm rests as everyone around us politely clapped. In a bit of solidarity with Musa I had decided I wouldn't clap until I had heard anyone speak in a language the guys I met outside Finsbury park would be able to relate to. Musa eventually heard what he had expected to hear. Someone talking in worrying terms about making a "British Islam".
"There is only one Islam." he said seriously. "If I say anything these people'll think Rachel has brought along an extremist.."
I laughed imagining the reaction to this "Brother of Atilla".
The only time Musa looked with anything but discomfort was during Jemima's speech when she said she was bringing up her kids to pray five times a day.
"Mashallah!" said Mus.
We joined in clapping Rachel who delivered her speech with her fathers eloquent preaching in the blood. I'd like to see her dad in action for comparison. Ducking outside into the sunshine for a bit so I could have a smoke we had a frank discussion. We spoke about Muslim's who would critisise him for the way he dressed. In the same way these are Muslim's he has critisism's of. We agreed that the most important thing was whether their heart was in the right place about what they are doing and that people don't judge each other. If we are all here looking for ways to stop people blowing up then we should do that, which can involve critisism's made in a constructive manner. Musa seemed a bit more at ease.
Many people judge Hamza for instance, I said. But they don't know him. I saw him preach loudly against randomly bombing in this country for a year. That's what I saw. But I don't know him. In the same way we don't know these people. You have to speak to people for a long while to feel you really know them, like I had done with his brother.
"Yeah" said Musa, "The sisters criticize Jemima Khan saying she puts it about a bit, but I don't think that makes her a kaffir. (apparently if your are Muslim you are meant to hide your sinning) I mean, if someone takes drugs they are still a Muslim and we should encourage them and I will tell the brothers and sisters that."
"What do you think Atilla would make of it?" I asked.
Musa didn't know. I don't think either of us could see Atilla as part of this, yet we could both see that to seriously make some headway into tackling extremism at ground level Atilla could reach people none of this lot would stand a chance of reaching. I remember thinking I would love to set Atilla on these people with a camera rolling when he got out of Belmarsh but I would be scared that he'd go straight back in again. Maybe they could have him on day release. Hey, that's a good idea for the Quilliam foundation. They like winning debates, they should get some of the brothers out of jail. Can you imagine Hamid taking this lot on? Now that would be an interesting debate. I am still trying to track down tapes of Hamid in action at Speaker's Corner. Obviously I haven't seen the new reformed Atilla. I suppose for whatever reason I am more comfortable with the crazier Islamists than these intellectual ones.
I confessed to Musa that I really missed all the pure nuttiness of Finsbury park. I thought that while Hamza was shouting loudly about not blowing up in this country, the Police had an opportunity to watch people who came and went and the situation worked for everyone except the tabloids. It was an outlet for some serious pressure and although it was bizarre, and a lot of things were said that I disagreed with, it was also just normal legal British protest. I could have filmed there for years. It was ridiculous.
We went back in to catch the debate chaired by Angus Walker. It was really boring. I've emailed Angus apologising for not joining in. I really wanted to tell these people that why I thought I could level with "Islamic extremists" looking the way I do was because I very vocally agreed that the reasons a lot of Iraqis were lying down now who shouldn't be was totally that they had been shocked and awed by a brainwashing, extremist ideology which we had to counter. I wanted to make a commitment to these people that if they sorted the Islamic end out the rest of us would sort our end out. Who's with me?
I wanted to say "Rachel, you are a proper lefty like me; Come on Angus! You are up for a laugh- How does the panel feel about the idea of revolution?"
On a more serious note I wanted to tell these people that the Muslim's I know just think that speaking out about injustice will get them arrested. The louder they shout and the longer the beard the quicker their front doors will be knocked down in the night. Simple.
I didn't say any of this. Maybe I have got these people wrong. I've since read a bit of Ed Hussain and most of his views about foreign policy are similar to mine. It just looked to me like the sort of people who could communicate with enthusiastic bodies eager to pay for this sort of thing but not the sort who could communicate with the Muslim's I had met in Finsbury park. It was all about countering extremist Islam and nothing about seriously countering extremist capitalism like it wasn't there. Unless I am profoundly mistaken there are relatively few Muslims who would mean us harm in this country. The rest of us are hopelessly up to our necks in extremist Capitalism. We can't move without it. To be fair I missed out on the American guy who said some good things at the Doha debates and I didn't get to discuss any of this with anyone after.
Rachel collected us on her way out of the lecture theatre. Angus came up with Rachel and I asked him what he thought of the event.
“Well they are preaching to the converted here a bit really aren't they.” he said carefully. “Let's see what they do.”
Musa had grown nervous that the invite had said there were no prayer facilities. We had been pacing around outside as he had already missed one prayer and needed to make amends. He feared that if he got down and prayed in the lobby that someone would try and stop him. I tried to reassure him that no one would stop a Muslim praying at an Islamic event. When Rachel realised what was happening she quickly and without fuss got directions to the nearest mosque from someone nearby and we left her networking. I often find it amusing that the 7/7 guys have managed to bomb someone who is so natural at London style PR. I am enjoying seeing what she does with it.
When we returned the event was over and we met Rachel outside a cafe in Museum street. Musa had been nervous about what to say to her as we walked back, but when I had picked up some fruit juices I found him speaking confidently and simply about his concerns. Rachel advised him to write to the Quilliam Foundation and to see what they said. This was an ongoing process. Yasmin Alibhai-Brown came by and introduced herself to Rachel and complemented her on her speech. I don't think she noticed us.
“She slags of bloggers doesn't she?” I asked Rachel as she left.
Musa went on to tell us how he had tried to get into the Sates in 2002 to marry someone. He had gone though a European Airport where he was tapped on the shoulder by an American who refused his onward journey claiming he was on a watch list. He pleaded his case and saw the guy go over to take a telephone call. Whoever was on the other end said something which made his face turn like he was sucking a lemon. The guy came back.
“It is you. Musa Ahmet. We are putting you back on a plane to the UK. You should be banned from aeroplanes throughout Europe.”
When he got back to the UK he said there were Police lined up along the walls with two plain clothes detectives waiting at the end. They wanted to know why he was on a watch list in the States and not here in the UK. He was as clueless as they were. They kept him for a few hours and then let him go. Rachel listened to all this and said that it was a good example of why we should go about raising his media profile. The articles in the Times and the Mirror would help. There might be ways to go further.
We parted company with Rachel and wove our way through Covent Garden to the House of Commons to attend a Caged Prisoner's event. Neither of us realised that the public were even allowed in the House of Commons and expected heavy security and Police attention. The guy at the public entrance greeted us with a huge smile and complimented me on my piercings.
“I can't have that in this job, not visible ones anyway..” he confided.
Walking through the chambers of the house we gazed up in awe at the architecture and gilded pictures. We found committee room eight where the event was to take place and waited outside until Musa had enough and led everyone in. There was a lovely view across the Thames through the window. Not a lot of people were there. George Galloway came in kissing a baby. We found out afterwards that the baby was actually his. Jeremy Corbyn arrived as did Yvonne Ridley, Mozam Begg and a very interesting guy from the Green Party. Gareth Pierce joined them later.
I know we take the piss out of Galloway a bit on Socialistwanker but sitting listening to him talking seriously about the plight of Muslim's in this country stopped my sniggering, as did the resounding introductions of his fellow panellists. Mozam Begg spoke about children with parents on control orders who couldn't do their homework properly because they were denied internet access. He was totally convinced that it was this sort of action that radicalised people. The Green party guy said some interesting stuff about how during the Foot and Mouth epidemic it had become apparent to him that the mechanisms of a Police state were already there. He also said that The Government were using anti terror laws against other non Islamic groups with Political grievances at the behest of the Turkish government.
Gareth Pierce spoke about her work representing Muslim's the government were trying to deport. She said conditions in this country weren't as bad as in Guantanamo but that detaining people and trying them without allowing them to access the charges against them was driving them mad. A lot of them ended up in Broadmoor. Jeremy talked about the underhanded way extensions to the amount of time a person could be detained were pushed through by Government. Yvonne said that as she passed Jacqui Smith, the Home Secretary with Mozam Begg. She had recognised who he was and had looked down in shame. I think it was Galloway who reassured everyone that people would remember Mozam Begg and what had happened to him long after Jacqui Smith had disappeared from public life.
As questions were opened it became apparent that there were a number of “9/11 truthers” in the audience. The first couple of people inevitably made speeches rather than asking questions. The last question was from a truther who asked if the panel would discuss the ramifications of the whole War on Terror being built on a lie. As usual with these sort of things the panellists studiously avoided answering until they were prompted again by the questioner who claimed to be a structural engineer. The panellists all gave what they hoped would sound like very general non committal answers.
Afterwards the guy handed round flyers for BBC5.TV and said to someone from caged prisoners that if they supported them, they should expect support in return. No one was impolite enough to say that they didn't believe 9/11 conspiracies but it was pretty evident that was the case. Outside the chamber the obviously zealous guy tried to recruit a passing Policeman who was eager to close up. He accused the people inside of being a “Bunch of intellectuals”.
We left, tired from our adventure and made our way to the tube. These Italian shoes might look nice but they are not made for walking and my feet were killing me. They still are. I told Musa that it was really nice that he and his brother had always been rock solid with me, and that it was nice to have so much fun without having a drink.
“It may have not always been apparent but my brother always liked you.” he answered.
We agreed that without each other we would have found the day really uncomfortable. We had been to a posh media launch at the British Museum and The House of Commons in one day. Writing this a couple of days later I've had the chance to read some of Ed Hussain's work, particularly this in The Independent. He knows what he is talking about doesn't he. Like Rachel, his experiences have put him on a zealous mission. Although I have been critical of the flavour of what I saw I am conscious that we were included as guests when a lot of MPs who wanted to be there were turned away. I have no idea if I will get a chance to speak to any of these people or if I could say anything to help. Obviously we will be discussing all this with some guys ex of Finsbury park to see what they say. My whole experience with all this makes me feel more like a Malung as the years go by. Not being a Muslim I have no theological argument with Ed Hussain. As I say, I don't know any of them. I will be very interested to see what Quilliam does.
I am ploughing through all these articles and will comment on them later..
Sunny Hundal in The Guardian and on Pickled Politics
Quilliam Foundation- Extremism Challenged (Harry's Place)
To lionise former extremists feeds anti-Muslim prejudice (Guardian)
It is ludicrous to dismiss us as neocon former extremists (Guardian)
Jemima receives threats in cyberspace (Hindustan Times)
Think tank to counter extremism (BBC)
All mod cons (Observer)
Jemima Khan backs reformed jihadists (Times Online)
Extremism is going unchallenged(New Statesman)
Muslim plan to tackle extremists (Guardian)
Ex-radicals challenge Muslims to shun extremism (Reuters)
"Quilliam Exposed" blog
First Post
UPDATE: Its all over the blogsphere
"How do I look?" I asked a girl down my street on the way out.
"To be honest the facial jewellery looks more frightening in contrast to the suit than it would to your normal clothes..."
With that ringing endorsement I was on my way.
I met up with Musa as planned to find he had been warned about the Quilliam Foundation by Muslims he knew and that he had been seriously considering giving it a miss. I told him for totally different reasons I was uncomfortable at these sort of things, and was glad that he had decided to come. Musa agreed it would be good to find out for himself what Quilliam was all about as he had been invited and we sort of decided we would keep shtum and just watch.
Rachel was waiting for us outside the Museum, relaxed in bright sunshine. Inside there was a large group of people waiting on the left of the main hall and it became apparent that we had just walked in with one of the stars of the show. I was hoping some of the Muslim's I have met over the years might be there but I didn't recognise anyone. It was really hard to read the crowd. Quite a lot of media columnists, a lot of sombre looking professional Muslim journalists and a very small number of women in Muslim dress. I was glad I was wearing my suit.
Standing in the middle of the crowd were Daniel Sandford from the BBC and Angus Walker from ITN both of whom we had met in Belmarsh courts and at the BBC. Angus straight away launched into how he had been haranguing his newsroom in very sarcastic terms to do a positive story about Islam for once. He stated that on all his stories he deemed it important to talk about terrorists as criminals and not attach them to the word "Muslim".
I like Angus, he always makes me feel comfortable. Rachel told me after that they are great pals and call each other for a gossip all the time. Trouble is, when someone makes me feel comfortable it all comes out.
"Tell me seriously David. Do you really think ITN is worse than the BBC News?"
"Seriously? It looks like it is made by coke heads."
He checked that that was what I was saying.
"I mean, the BBC looks only marginally better. It looks brash and full of itself and they talk in a really puffed up excitable manner about extremism, it all just looks like it has cocaine involved in it. The whole of television looks laced with cocaine to me, I mean at the other end the children's presenters are actually caught with the stuff and die from association with it..."
I told him about how important I thought it was for America's to see A Life in Hashistan, as I thought Chris Turner, a normal American guy with a thirty year knowledge of the Pashtun people had the ability to explain Afghanistan to the US no one else had at this critical time. I rambled on about dogfighting, people going after mountain lions armed only with a strong felt coat and traveling Malungs filling up pipes with huge rocks of dope. A few people round us were laughing but afterwards I was mortified that it looked like I had come up to these people screaming "DRUGS!!!!DRUGS!!!!" in their faces.
Musa and I went on to talk about our “Atilla Ahmet football manager” campaign and about his eight seasons undefeated coaching a schoolboy team. He told us to get on to the Football Foundation who worked in prisons. (I haven't contacted them yet, I've heard back from Arsenal who aren't able to help...) We all agreed that Football was a language a lot of British street style Muslims would respond to.
It took a long time to get downstairs, Musa had a bit of trouble which was quickly sorted when a girl came up saying it was she who had sent the email inviting him. While Rachel was being interviewed by CNN and everyone else a few journalists spoke to Musa and got his contact details and we filmed this:
When we eventually got into the lecture theatre we ended up sitting right in the middle. It all looked really slick and expensive and it was very hot under the lights. After the introduction came some five minute speeches from invited guests including Rachel and Jemima Khan. Musa looked really stern holding his hands firmly on the arm rests as everyone around us politely clapped. In a bit of solidarity with Musa I had decided I wouldn't clap until I had heard anyone speak in a language the guys I met outside Finsbury park would be able to relate to. Musa eventually heard what he had expected to hear. Someone talking in worrying terms about making a "British Islam".
"There is only one Islam." he said seriously. "If I say anything these people'll think Rachel has brought along an extremist.."
I laughed imagining the reaction to this "Brother of Atilla".
The only time Musa looked with anything but discomfort was during Jemima's speech when she said she was bringing up her kids to pray five times a day.
"Mashallah!" said Mus.
We joined in clapping Rachel who delivered her speech with her fathers eloquent preaching in the blood. I'd like to see her dad in action for comparison. Ducking outside into the sunshine for a bit so I could have a smoke we had a frank discussion. We spoke about Muslim's who would critisise him for the way he dressed. In the same way these are Muslim's he has critisism's of. We agreed that the most important thing was whether their heart was in the right place about what they are doing and that people don't judge each other. If we are all here looking for ways to stop people blowing up then we should do that, which can involve critisism's made in a constructive manner. Musa seemed a bit more at ease.
Many people judge Hamza for instance, I said. But they don't know him. I saw him preach loudly against randomly bombing in this country for a year. That's what I saw. But I don't know him. In the same way we don't know these people. You have to speak to people for a long while to feel you really know them, like I had done with his brother.
"Yeah" said Musa, "The sisters criticize Jemima Khan saying she puts it about a bit, but I don't think that makes her a kaffir. (apparently if your are Muslim you are meant to hide your sinning) I mean, if someone takes drugs they are still a Muslim and we should encourage them and I will tell the brothers and sisters that."
"What do you think Atilla would make of it?" I asked.
Musa didn't know. I don't think either of us could see Atilla as part of this, yet we could both see that to seriously make some headway into tackling extremism at ground level Atilla could reach people none of this lot would stand a chance of reaching. I remember thinking I would love to set Atilla on these people with a camera rolling when he got out of Belmarsh but I would be scared that he'd go straight back in again. Maybe they could have him on day release. Hey, that's a good idea for the Quilliam foundation. They like winning debates, they should get some of the brothers out of jail. Can you imagine Hamid taking this lot on? Now that would be an interesting debate. I am still trying to track down tapes of Hamid in action at Speaker's Corner. Obviously I haven't seen the new reformed Atilla. I suppose for whatever reason I am more comfortable with the crazier Islamists than these intellectual ones.
I confessed to Musa that I really missed all the pure nuttiness of Finsbury park. I thought that while Hamza was shouting loudly about not blowing up in this country, the Police had an opportunity to watch people who came and went and the situation worked for everyone except the tabloids. It was an outlet for some serious pressure and although it was bizarre, and a lot of things were said that I disagreed with, it was also just normal legal British protest. I could have filmed there for years. It was ridiculous.
We went back in to catch the debate chaired by Angus Walker. It was really boring. I've emailed Angus apologising for not joining in. I really wanted to tell these people that why I thought I could level with "Islamic extremists" looking the way I do was because I very vocally agreed that the reasons a lot of Iraqis were lying down now who shouldn't be was totally that they had been shocked and awed by a brainwashing, extremist ideology which we had to counter. I wanted to make a commitment to these people that if they sorted the Islamic end out the rest of us would sort our end out. Who's with me?
I wanted to say "Rachel, you are a proper lefty like me; Come on Angus! You are up for a laugh- How does the panel feel about the idea of revolution?"
On a more serious note I wanted to tell these people that the Muslim's I know just think that speaking out about injustice will get them arrested. The louder they shout and the longer the beard the quicker their front doors will be knocked down in the night. Simple.
I didn't say any of this. Maybe I have got these people wrong. I've since read a bit of Ed Hussain and most of his views about foreign policy are similar to mine. It just looked to me like the sort of people who could communicate with enthusiastic bodies eager to pay for this sort of thing but not the sort who could communicate with the Muslim's I had met in Finsbury park. It was all about countering extremist Islam and nothing about seriously countering extremist capitalism like it wasn't there. Unless I am profoundly mistaken there are relatively few Muslims who would mean us harm in this country. The rest of us are hopelessly up to our necks in extremist Capitalism. We can't move without it. To be fair I missed out on the American guy who said some good things at the Doha debates and I didn't get to discuss any of this with anyone after.
Rachel collected us on her way out of the lecture theatre. Angus came up with Rachel and I asked him what he thought of the event.
“Well they are preaching to the converted here a bit really aren't they.” he said carefully. “Let's see what they do.”
Musa had grown nervous that the invite had said there were no prayer facilities. We had been pacing around outside as he had already missed one prayer and needed to make amends. He feared that if he got down and prayed in the lobby that someone would try and stop him. I tried to reassure him that no one would stop a Muslim praying at an Islamic event. When Rachel realised what was happening she quickly and without fuss got directions to the nearest mosque from someone nearby and we left her networking. I often find it amusing that the 7/7 guys have managed to bomb someone who is so natural at London style PR. I am enjoying seeing what she does with it.
When we returned the event was over and we met Rachel outside a cafe in Museum street. Musa had been nervous about what to say to her as we walked back, but when I had picked up some fruit juices I found him speaking confidently and simply about his concerns. Rachel advised him to write to the Quilliam Foundation and to see what they said. This was an ongoing process. Yasmin Alibhai-Brown came by and introduced herself to Rachel and complemented her on her speech. I don't think she noticed us.
“She slags of bloggers doesn't she?” I asked Rachel as she left.
Musa went on to tell us how he had tried to get into the Sates in 2002 to marry someone. He had gone though a European Airport where he was tapped on the shoulder by an American who refused his onward journey claiming he was on a watch list. He pleaded his case and saw the guy go over to take a telephone call. Whoever was on the other end said something which made his face turn like he was sucking a lemon. The guy came back.
“It is you. Musa Ahmet. We are putting you back on a plane to the UK. You should be banned from aeroplanes throughout Europe.”
When he got back to the UK he said there were Police lined up along the walls with two plain clothes detectives waiting at the end. They wanted to know why he was on a watch list in the States and not here in the UK. He was as clueless as they were. They kept him for a few hours and then let him go. Rachel listened to all this and said that it was a good example of why we should go about raising his media profile. The articles in the Times and the Mirror would help. There might be ways to go further.
We parted company with Rachel and wove our way through Covent Garden to the House of Commons to attend a Caged Prisoner's event. Neither of us realised that the public were even allowed in the House of Commons and expected heavy security and Police attention. The guy at the public entrance greeted us with a huge smile and complimented me on my piercings.
“I can't have that in this job, not visible ones anyway..” he confided.
Walking through the chambers of the house we gazed up in awe at the architecture and gilded pictures. We found committee room eight where the event was to take place and waited outside until Musa had enough and led everyone in. There was a lovely view across the Thames through the window. Not a lot of people were there. George Galloway came in kissing a baby. We found out afterwards that the baby was actually his. Jeremy Corbyn arrived as did Yvonne Ridley, Mozam Begg and a very interesting guy from the Green Party. Gareth Pierce joined them later.
I know we take the piss out of Galloway a bit on Socialistwanker but sitting listening to him talking seriously about the plight of Muslim's in this country stopped my sniggering, as did the resounding introductions of his fellow panellists. Mozam Begg spoke about children with parents on control orders who couldn't do their homework properly because they were denied internet access. He was totally convinced that it was this sort of action that radicalised people. The Green party guy said some interesting stuff about how during the Foot and Mouth epidemic it had become apparent to him that the mechanisms of a Police state were already there. He also said that The Government were using anti terror laws against other non Islamic groups with Political grievances at the behest of the Turkish government.
Gareth Pierce spoke about her work representing Muslim's the government were trying to deport. She said conditions in this country weren't as bad as in Guantanamo but that detaining people and trying them without allowing them to access the charges against them was driving them mad. A lot of them ended up in Broadmoor. Jeremy talked about the underhanded way extensions to the amount of time a person could be detained were pushed through by Government. Yvonne said that as she passed Jacqui Smith, the Home Secretary with Mozam Begg. She had recognised who he was and had looked down in shame. I think it was Galloway who reassured everyone that people would remember Mozam Begg and what had happened to him long after Jacqui Smith had disappeared from public life.
As questions were opened it became apparent that there were a number of “9/11 truthers” in the audience. The first couple of people inevitably made speeches rather than asking questions. The last question was from a truther who asked if the panel would discuss the ramifications of the whole War on Terror being built on a lie. As usual with these sort of things the panellists studiously avoided answering until they were prompted again by the questioner who claimed to be a structural engineer. The panellists all gave what they hoped would sound like very general non committal answers.
Afterwards the guy handed round flyers for BBC5.TV and said to someone from caged prisoners that if they supported them, they should expect support in return. No one was impolite enough to say that they didn't believe 9/11 conspiracies but it was pretty evident that was the case. Outside the chamber the obviously zealous guy tried to recruit a passing Policeman who was eager to close up. He accused the people inside of being a “Bunch of intellectuals”.
We left, tired from our adventure and made our way to the tube. These Italian shoes might look nice but they are not made for walking and my feet were killing me. They still are. I told Musa that it was really nice that he and his brother had always been rock solid with me, and that it was nice to have so much fun without having a drink.
“It may have not always been apparent but my brother always liked you.” he answered.
We agreed that without each other we would have found the day really uncomfortable. We had been to a posh media launch at the British Museum and The House of Commons in one day. Writing this a couple of days later I've had the chance to read some of Ed Hussain's work, particularly this in The Independent. He knows what he is talking about doesn't he. Like Rachel, his experiences have put him on a zealous mission. Although I have been critical of the flavour of what I saw I am conscious that we were included as guests when a lot of MPs who wanted to be there were turned away. I have no idea if I will get a chance to speak to any of these people or if I could say anything to help. Obviously we will be discussing all this with some guys ex of Finsbury park to see what they say. My whole experience with all this makes me feel more like a Malung as the years go by. Not being a Muslim I have no theological argument with Ed Hussain. As I say, I don't know any of them. I will be very interested to see what Quilliam does.
I am ploughing through all these articles and will comment on them later..
Sunny Hundal in The Guardian and on Pickled Politics
Quilliam Foundation- Extremism Challenged (Harry's Place)
To lionise former extremists feeds anti-Muslim prejudice (Guardian)
It is ludicrous to dismiss us as neocon former extremists (Guardian)
Jemima receives threats in cyberspace (Hindustan Times)
Think tank to counter extremism (BBC)
All mod cons (Observer)
Jemima Khan backs reformed jihadists (Times Online)
Extremism is going unchallenged(New Statesman)
Muslim plan to tackle extremists (Guardian)
Ex-radicals challenge Muslims to shun extremism (Reuters)
"Quilliam Exposed" blog
First Post
UPDATE: Its all over the blogsphere
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