November 01, 2007


OK. Had a good Halloween blast in Peckham. Great party, great people. I don't think its occurred to any of us that it would be a good idea to strap bombs to ourselves and randomly blow up innocents, but nevertheless if you asked most people there if society should change, I think they'd say yes.

This is from my notes yesterday.

Before I went in I had a bit of a quick argument with Hamid's lawyers who err.. wanted a shorter statement to go with the tape they asked for. The Police have at no point asked to see any of them. For the record, had anyone who I have met along the way showed any signs that they might explode in this country I would of course have been straight on to them.

Around the court I don't really feel that I have noticed any Satanic conspiracy. I think resources have been invested in infiltrating groups of people who they think might explode. If I were in charge of such matters I would try and infiltrate them. I was always wondering which of the peculiar characters who hung around Finsbury park, would turn out to have been MI-5.

Concluding tapes from a meeting in Hamid's house we hear Atilla saying that the sisters are stronger than brothers these days. Hamid, who Dawood refers to as “Al-Koran” says it is very important that everyone is there.

The next thing we hear is Dawood talking into his tape recorder about a phone call he is about to make to Hamid about a camping trip to the Jamia al- Islami centre in Sussex. It was chilling to hear his posh accent become fake “street” as he spoke on the phone.

Dawood said that when he arrived at the centre he pitched his tent next to another brother who was also without his family at one end of the place, whilst the families pitched at the other end. He said he didn't approach Atilla with his family and was told it “wasn't right” and that they would meet in the communal area.

He said he was introduced to an older male and his son in law. They all decided to drive to Sainsbury's. On the way Atilla apparently told him that he couldn't travel abroad many places as he was “On a list” though travelling to Cyprus was OK. He spoke of buying land there and the need for Islamists to move to Islamic countries. He said that Muslims must go with the intention of changing countries to live under Islamic law. When they came back they sat under a tree and spoke about a helicopter which was reported to have malfunctioned over Israel. They said they believed it was shot down by resistance.

Atilla spoke of suicide and that there was no reason for doing it. He said that if our leaders had their way they'd massacre all of us. He spoke again of Muslims leaving the west. He also, paradoxically said that Muslims in the UK led a better version of Islam than those in Islamic countries.

All of this information was gleaned from this peculiar “non-leading” way of questioning that prosecutors and their wigs have to get up to. Under his wig, the judge seemed to have had enough of it and told them to just get on and play the bloody tape, much to the relief of the jury I am sure.

I heard Atilla joking about microphones hidden in the trees. The older Muslim guy spoke to Dawood about Abdullah Al- Faisal. He said he had reverted to Islam in Jamaica at the age of 16. Billal Philips had taken him to Saudi Arabia where he stayed for 9 years. He came to the UK, people didn't like what he said. He gave Dawood two DVDs by Kallid Yasser (?) one of which was entilted What is the Purpose of Life?

Atilla speaks about the strength of the Turkish people. They were fighting Russia, as well as the UK and her allies at the same time. The older guy forewarned of a coming attack on Turkey. Atilla said it was difficult to get money to Islamic causes abroad these days. He says it can get you in trouble. He spoke with joviality about his registration number TLB equating to Taliban. He said that the Charity Commision, a bunch of kaffirs were running mosques with “Monafiq's” Why was there CCTV in mosques? Not for the benefit of Muslims. Undercover Police were at all mosques. Trustee's worked with the kuffar to arrest Muslims just like the Apostate leaders of Islamic countries .

If Islamic countries cut the oil the western economies would crash. In the seventies this happened and the US were thinking of invading Saudi Arabia then. These filthy Kaffirs brainwash people to say “get out of our country”. So kick us out. We have the oil. Pick up a sword. Lets fight.

They aren't strong enough to fight Turkey. They would cripple it from within and then send in UN Soldiers to “make peace”. He said it was incumbent upon Muslims to physically stop a thing happening, or if they couldn't do that they should condemn it with their tongue. Even if more Muslims did this you would see a difference. Monafiq's Christians, Jews, Sikhs and Hindu's all compromise their religions. Muslims don't. They die to live for the sake of Allah.

When he got some sort of official power at Finsbury park the monafiqs made a deal with the kuffar and sent 30 riot police, with 400 waiting round the corner. Some brothers were willing to die there and then. (I have tape of Barry Norman, then Islington Commander refuting the use of riot Police.)
The papers joined in and named him as the next terrorist leader.

On 7/7 a lot of papers tried to link him to the story. Someone from the Sun rang him very angrily

“You need to be locked up. You are not a real Muslim. You are scum.”

He said he was laughing and asked them, “Look. Have you got any questions?”

“Give back your passport.” was the retort. “If you were a man you'd give back your passport.”

He answered “You can stick it where it hurts. Tell your government and Tony Blair the same thing. This is Allah's doonya (planet) and you are scum yourself.”

They told him he was very close to being arrested.

At this point the older guy said he should have bought some device from gadgetshop and recorded the conversation for evidence. He said a very good one had come down in price a lot.

“They call us terrorists.” he said and then something about “Conquering the west before we move on.”. He says that if you believe that you get charged with terrorsm act 2000. Muslims were loosing their way. They are obedient to the kuffar but not to their fellow brothers. At this point it is obvious that Atilla is loosing it. Someone ( possibly the son in law of the older guy) is comforting him saying “This is your deen” (the path Allah has chosen for him). He says very emotionally that he has to find a second wife. (In conversation on the phone his wife has confirmed to me that they were having a marital dispute and had sought the advice of their close friends separately.) he carries on.

“Since I have become a Muslim I have been fighting myself. I have become more and more of a pathetic clown. Its payback time.”

I couldn't tell what point Hamid had joined the party, but at this point he interjects, referring to an argument he had with Atilla previously. He says Atilla shows his aggressive side. Everyone knows he can be aggressive, he should instead show his intelligent side. He asked how many people got Shahid (martydom) on 7/7. The answer was four. How many they take out? 52.

“That's not even breakfast for me.” he said. He said he would use his intelligence to commit acts of bombing and get home to sleep with his wife after. Attack like Jack the Ripper. A voice, I would take to be Atilla's “mmm”s in a non-committal manner.

In the Afternoon we hear Hamid talk about a documentary which said that Christians wanted to reestablish Israel so that they could have all of the Jews in one place and kill them all. He said the leaders of the Christians were devil worshippers.

We hear Atilla at a bit of a distance singing “Come Mr. Taliban give me kaffir....” then something about kalashnikov, “Come Mr Taliban, bomb England...implement Sharreah.” this continues at a distance. It sounds like he is swinging his kid about.

He says few proper Muslims believe homosexuals should be told that god didn't create them that way and that if they were living somewhere else they wouldn't be living. He said the media all over the world portrayed them as terrorists because they said this. Obviously still emotional, he says there are many Muslims more qualified than him who don't speak out. They say “What's the point?”

He retells the story about the phone call from the Sun news desk. “When I put the phone down I thought- I got up a kaffirs nose and I ain't even done nothin.”

Another tape. This time, Hassan (?) is near a car asking Dawood to give him money to go abroad. Hamid talks to him about being careful of “Job Centre's” and “Getting Bad jobs. Understand?”

(UPDATE: Atilla's wife called and said Hassan got sentenced to 10 years on Friday. Apparenlty there are others from the Bridge to China raid awaiting trial)

Dawood says that Atilla was singing the song most of the day.

The next tape is Hamid at his dawa stall speaking about his past life, drug dealing etc. and we also hear a tape of Dawood calling Hassan (?) saying that he can't lend him money, but hoping he would be OK.

(Thats what I heard. I called Musa, he got a call from the other line and I spoke to Atilla. In conversation with Atilla and his wife all had said they were incredulous at what Hamid said at the time. They say the Police have a tape where Atilla is asked whether people should bomb here and he says “No, no, no.” Atilla said I have known him a long time and know he wouldn't do these things. I said that the jury would reach a verdict based on the tape and that no one would be representing his interests in court and suggested changing his plea if the wrong information about him is coming out. “The judge isn't going to accept that.” he said.

In later conversation with Musa he said Atilla was rarely at Hamid's house. He said he and his brother were just jokers. This “Bomb England” was a joke. I said they should concentrate on getting him to calm down. This is the time when all of this is coming out, he has to accept that he won't be able to stop his mind racing about all this alone in his cell. Musa answered that he and his brother considered me a friend and that if their tone gets angry they mean no offence.)

I still don't know what to think about all this. Apparenlty Atilla's "Jihad calypso" isn't what he is charged with. Its pretty obvious the Police are going to think they are on the right track sticking around these people and that they have averted an explosion, possibly many. I can see that people will want to see Atilla do time for his Jihadi calypso. Personally I've got no idea. He owes me one free insult of the Prophet? A quick cartoon? Fuck knows.

Speaking to a very interesting legal assistant (not Hamids) he reckoned "objectively" that Hamid has big mood swings. Maybe he was having a bad day. You could bug anyone's room and they'd say something which sounded arrestable. I'm not sure about this logic, but I'm not sure Hamid isn't a Jihadi dreamer. Someone having a bad day thinking about exploding is a bad day for all of us, particularly if they are surrounded by some people who would and that is not to say that those who believe they should drop bombs in Muslim countries are any different. Both do what they believe is right. How do we stop it?


Twit said...

Sell your video-camera & buy a gun.

We're done.


DAVE BONES said...

Its not the post, its the whole thing really. I've been writing about, and in a lot of ways defending Atilla since 2003, not that its made any difference, or for that matter that anyone has been reading.

Looking back over it all I can see somethings I wrote were stupid, some funny, but its all there.

Although I may not have achieved what I set out to do filmwise, I have achieved the other side of what I set out to do- namely to befriend some of the people "society" would be concerned about.

Someone in government said we should "Reach out to those who might be tempted by extremism".

Do they do it? No.

I've often questioned my motivation, at some points filming in Finsbury I think I had a gleeful , ultimately unwholesome motivation of shock, not unlike the Sun newspaper.

Now in 2007, yes I've become a friend of the family and that is important to me.

If these Muslims can look at the world and think "Not all of the kaffirs think this way, or are involved in this" we are safer. More than that I want to be involved in doing something about all this. Its just- what?

You're thoughts re- Mousah and Hamid, no. I didn't know either of them as well as you, or what they were thinking. As I said in the post, if I heard anything which worried me I would have spoken to the anti-terror people.

The legal guy wasn't working for Hamid. He was suggesting maybe he was a bit of a dreamer rather than a real threat. I don't know. I'll see what he says when he takes the stand if I can get down there on the right day.

DAVE BONES said...

I'm not defending Hamid's comments about "jack the Ripper" bombings. he has to answer for them himself. I don't defend Atilla's Jihadi calypso either. His brother and his wife do.

African neocon said...

I guess it can’t be easy given that you’re a friend of the [Atilla] family. For you to want to defend him you must have seen the real side of Atilla or as a cynic might say the side Atilla wanted you to see.

About reaching out to those tempted by extremism, I think is fair to say that the government has been encouraging community leaders to engage young Muslims. There’s also a government department, which is investing capital into fostering good relations within communities (head by Hazel Blears). But as you very well know, a committed would-be terrorist is a committed would-be terrorist and nothing will change such a person.

What annoys me about the Kaffir-haters is that not every person in the evil West hates them and thinks they are terrorists. I would say it more of fear from the average man on the streets. Personally, having lived in a Muslim country I have found Muslims to be generous in spirit and ready at times to die for their beliefs (like most people I guess). Thankfully, the extremists are a minority in this country and in general. The conundrum is how do we get the [extremists] minority to see sense in “can’t we all just get along”?

DAVE BONES said...

about Atilla, yes. Fairly much. And i think the Atilla I believed in is very important to him right now as well, so I am glad. It says something as it doesn't make a blind bit of difference to his situation whether I believe in him or not.

As for the govt reaching out to community leaders. I don't think so. The Neo-Cons have bought their own version of Islam run by an idiot with a flip chart. I think its called the "Sufi Council" or something. All Muslims will see through it. For our saftey its a ridiculous waste of money.

As far as us all getting along, we are occupying majority Muslim countries. I don't want people to bomb innocents here, I don't want the hypocrisy which leads to such things.

African neocon said...

Hey Dave
Let’s give HMG credit where credit is due. HMG is doing its best to foster good relations between communities. However, Governments can’t always solve every problem. And this is where decent folks like you have a role to play in reaching out to the kaffir-haters. It also means that Muslims must come on board too. They must accept that we are all in this together.
Is the West occupying Muslim countries? I wouldn’t exactly put it that way. But I hope you agree that there are a [large] number of Muslims that have welcomed the efforts of the West to rid them of their dictators and guide them through to achieving “democracy”. Are their efforts working? It’s proving a challenge for the West and there are encouraging signs. This is how I see it: why should we [West] stand by and let our neighbour’s house burn when we have the will and means to help them? As to your claim of hypocrisy, I would say it’s more to do with the perception.

DAVE BONES said...

Kicking out Sadam, a royal visit for the Saudi- where everyone accepts the real problem comes from. Hypocrisy.

African neocon said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
African neocon said...

I hope this balanced speech will help?

It's about time JE spoke out publicly.

DAVE BONES said...

Its Crusade vs Jihad. We are stuck in the middle. How do we stop it?

DAVE BONES said...


a comment from African Neocon has been removed just in case it is a contempt of court issue

it is saved and will reappear at the end of the trial.

DAVE BONES said...


Hey Dave

Hope you’re well?

It seems that this post has taken a lot out of you, no? Am I right in suggesting you ‘connected’ with Atilla? I guess you must have got to know him quite well? It makes a big difference when you know the real person unlike many of us who only knew Atilla via the media. I must admit that I only met Atilla once at Speakers’ Corner and I found his speech very uncomfortable.

I’m a bit surprised by paragraph 3 of your post and I’m guessing have misread it (taken it out of context). In it you say:

“Before I went in I had a bit of a quick argument with Hamid's lawyers who err.. wanted a shorter statement to go with the tape they asked for. The Police have at no point asked to see any of them. For the record, had anyone who I have met along the way showed any signs that they might explode in this country I would of course have been straight on to them.”

My concern here is that unless Mohammed Hamid and Mousa Brown were MI5 (and I think we can rule that out now) it was plain to see (to some) that their views were too extreme for ‘normal Muslims’ and not the run of the mill “we have an issue with British double standard foreign policy.” I have named these two because I knew them fairly well (in the context of Speakers’ Corner). I’m assuming that you also know these guys very well (more than most of)? In saying this, I find it hard to believe you didn’t find their views (in particular MH) disturbing and verging on extremism which might (just) be ripe for considering ‘would-be terrorist acts’?

As I have mentioned in other posts re MH, I have had a number of discussions with him re current political environment vis a vis the Muslim world. I remember once in the Park when MH introduced me to a ‘European looking Muslim’ and lecturing me on the capabilities of such Muslims in this country and how we (including “uncle Toms like me) were focusing on the wrong type of Muslims. Some might say that this was no more than a boast, but to me ‘something was rotten in Denmark’. There was something serious about what he said to me, that I went home that evening and told my ex wife that I had met a potential terrorist who was lecturing me (one on one) on the potential capabilities of ‘European looking Muslims’. This was one of the many episodes of MH’s lectures on Muslims capabilities in the UK.

There was also a time while MH was running his stall on Oxford Street when he accosted a Muslim friend that I have known in the park for some time. MH had urged this Muslim friend to ‘act in a certain way towards non-believers’ (I’m not sure whether in the park or elsewhere). I have since urged this ‘friend’ to consider volunteering his experience with MH to the police, but like a ‘true Muslim’ he thinks it’s wrong “snitch” on fellow Muslims.

As to Atilla’s “Bomb England”, it might well be a joke but what sane and decent (British) person goes around singing “Bomb England”?

Finally, I’m further confused about your last paragraph where you say the following:

“…Speaking to one of the legal assistants he said objectively that Hamid has big mood swings. Maybe he was having a bad day. Someone having a bad day thinking about exploding is a bad day for all of us, and that is not to say that those who believe they should drop bombs in Muslim countries are any different. Both do what they believe is right. How do we stop it?”

Bad days are commons to us all, but a bad day where one thinks that blowing up innocent people is ok because of the “belief” is plainly evil in my books. And your attempt to morally compare it to those dropping bombs in Muslim countries (the West I presume) is something that I don’t get even though it’s an argument that continues to find resonance with some.

How did today go in court?