November 27, 2007


Joel asked Hamid about his relationship with Hassan. He said he knew him but not that well. When he heard he had missed his flight and had his passport confiscated he asked a friendly journalist who passed by his dawah stall what he could do. He took down the address of some lawyers and this note was referred to in evidence.

He was asked about Atilla's deteriorating mental state. Hamid said he was upset that Atilla had done the CNN interview and didn't agree with what he had said. In the Bridge to China he was boasting about how he said the Police, banks, MPs were all targets. He had "let them have it". Hamid said he didn't even invite Atilla and was annoyed to see him there. He said the restaurant wasn't the place to discuss such matters and that they should go to a park or something.

He was asked about the conversation which went on outside with Atilla. He said it was something about a conversation he had with lawyers asking him to give evidence at the 21/7 trial and that he and Atilla helped push a strangers car to get it started. In Belmarsh he and Atilla were on the same wing and he heard Atilla crying and said he was "cracking". He said Atilla accused him of being a spy when he went out of the jail to hospital for his sinus twice. He said there was no way that Atilla thought he was guilty but he had no faith in the justice system.

Hugh Mullan, representing Kader Ahmed got up and asked Hamid some questions.

Between them they agreed that Kader was quiet and helpful. He didn't like Atilla as he was aggressive in tone and criticized other Muslims committing "taqfir" (?). Hamid said that Kader had asked him why Atilla was the emir as he didn't even come camping or turn up on time for meetings.

The cross examination started.

Hamid claimed he had learnt leopard crawling at borstal. There were often teachers there who were ex-military. This training was to defend yourself and to be ready for the time when the madhi comes and Muslims will have to defend themselves.

The judge asked Hamid when this would be.

Hamid answered 30 years? 20 years? 10 years? He didn't know when Iran or Syria was going to be attacked. If Saudi was invaded this was a Holy place for all Muslims who would have to defend it.

The prosecution referred to him saying "Hurry up" on the camera phone evidence of people leopard crawling in the New Forest. He said he was telling them to hurry because he had a low battery on his mobile. Just because people were holding a stick as a gun didn't make it an AK47. The judge stopped the prosecution referring to AK47s and said he should refer to "guns". He said it was training for situations abroad where there were guns like Iraq or Afghanistan which Hamid denied. Hamid said it was not training for terrorist attacks.

The prosecution guy was hunched over saying that Hamid had spoke of knowing trainers in Afghanistan. He said he was exaggerating. He had held an AK47 but hadn't fired it. The prosecution could check for themselves. He was in and out of the refugee camps in two days with no time for training. Before 9/11 it was all legal. He said that if the prosecution could find any incriminating phone call to Afghanistan he would plead guilty. He held his wrists out.

He made a bit of a speech to the jury. The judge asked him to go a bit slower for the stenographer who was having a heart attack. Joel also asked him to slow down. The prosecution guy and Hamid were leaned toward each other, Hamid with crossed arms, angry. The prosecution guy isn't very good. He didn't seem very well prepared and kept loosing his place, taking ages to find his cross-references in his files. He's sort of doing an impression of a crown barrister, but not a very good one.

The judge tried to help make sense of it all, asking to play tapes that the prosecution referred to. Hamid claimed that he only camped 300 feet from the road. They were talking about secrecy because they didn't have a lot of money and the camp sites were closed. They didn't want to get moved on. The news had been full of people accused of Jihadi training in Wales etc. Hamid loved camping and didn't want to stop just because "busybodies" would think they were up to something. Proceedings were halted because a jury member started banging her head on the table feeling unwell.

(UPDATE: Please don't post anything which could be considered extra-judicial evidence below. email me, dave*at* and I promise I will post it here when the trial is over- THANKS)


African neocon said...


Will Hamid still be grilled all week? What court is he in tomorrow?

DAVE BONES said...


African neocon said...

He's next in court on friday or grilling ends on friday?

DAVE BONES said...

three days off. Friday it restarts

DAVE BONES said...


Anonymous comment has been removed. It will be reintroduced after the trial.

Please don't post anything which could be considered exra judicial evidence, including opinions. email me dave*at* and I WILL POST after trial thanks.

Anonymous said...


Have you any information on the appearance in court of Nasreen Suleaman, BBC journalist, as a witness in the Hamid case?

DAVE BONES said...

ANONYMOUS comment reintroduced:

inshaallah hamid gets guilty on all counts, hamid doesnt belong in any muslim comunity, he is one BIG liar, how dare he blame another muslim for his own actions, hamid was and still is the leader of his group, look behind hamids smiles and jokes and you will see the real hamid(extremely DANGEROUS)

I.:.S.:. said...

"Proceedings were halted because a jury member started banging her head on the table feeling unwell."

hahahahahahahaaaaaaaaa ouch that hurts it's so funny you should be court reporter